Ike Williams vs Julio Cesar Chavez

Discussion in 'Mythical Matchups' started by George Crowcroft, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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  2. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Williams beats the Hell outta Chavez.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    I don't think it's so black and white. Williams, while having destroyed plenty of aggressive fighters, also lost to most of them: Angott, Jack, Montgomery, etc; and I don't think any of those have a patch on Chavez from Rosario/Ramirez.

    Williams could well lose this, but he could also give Chavez a beating.
     
  4. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Leap-Amateur

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    I’d favor Chavez based on durability.
     
  5. Ring Leader

    Ring Leader Undisputed Champion

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    Williams never lost to Jack.

    As far as the other two go, they were both naturally larger/heavier at the time they stopped Williams. Once Williams filled out into a full LW, he crushed Montgomery and anyone else at the weight who tried to physically challenge him.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Did he not? Whoops, my mistake.

    I disagree with what you're implying. The only reason he destroyed Montgomery is because Montgomery had aged so much by the time of their rematch, that afterward, he'd never win a fight again. Angott held him to two split decisons, and even though it's likely that those were flattering to Angott, it's undeniable that his pressure fighting and clinch game troubled Williams. Obviously his bodywork too. Beau Jack held him to split decision in his prime, as well. Even the fight which Williams KOed him in was closely contested. You can throw their last two fights out, though. A young Gavilan held him to two very close fights, as well as giving him an outright loss (although Keed was much bigger by that point).

    I think it's clear that Williams could win or lose this match up.
     
  7. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Leap-Amateur

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    I disagree that either of those guys were much larger than Williams, period. He was square in his prime for the Angott fights, especially the last one where he was stopped.

    He was pre-prime for the Montgomery KO loss, but Montgomery was past prime by the rematch.

    He was stopped a bit pre-prime as a top contender against Montgomery, in his prime against Angott, and a bit past prime against Carter. That’s 3 stoppage losses at different stages of his career when he was a top fighter.
     
  8. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Scrub

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    I would pick Chavez but I would prefer to actually see this than to be correct
     
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  9. Ring Leader

    Ring Leader Undisputed Champion

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    I'd question whether he had fully filled out into a LW at that point. He weighed only 131 a few months earlier for his title shot at Zurita, and even against Angott he weighed just at the LW limit for fights where the fighters were apparently permitted to weigh as much as 140. By contrast, Angott had already outgrown LW and was at least a natural jr. WW by that time.
     
  10. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Leap-Amateur

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    He was 25 years old and almost 80 fights into his career, so if he wasn’t a Lightweight by then, was he ever?
     
  11. Ring Leader

    Ring Leader Undisputed Champion

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    I would say he was naturally larger and stronger in the late 40s, when he was weighing, on average, heavier than he was earlier in his career (but not too much that he was drained from making the weight). At the time of the Zurita and 1st Montgomery fights, he almost certainly could've made Jr. LW if he was so inclined.
     
  12. Flo-Raiden

    Flo-Raiden Undisputed Champion

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    I'll take Williams in a brutal war. Williams threw some lovely combinations, was a very spiteful puncher with mean intentions, and a savage finisher. He seemed to exceed against fighters that come to him, as shown in his fight against Beau Jack. He also dropped granite-chinned Kid Gavilan and broke the jaw of Johnny Bratton, which makes me wonder if he'd be able to hurt and possibly stop Chavez.
     
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  13. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Leap-Amateur

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    Johnny Bratton had his jaw broken 3 separate times in his career.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Different type of glass jaw.
     
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  15. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Leap-Amateur

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    Yeah,he was a hard bastard, despite his flashy style. He took hard, clean shots in every fight that you just didn’t expect he could walk through the way he did. Apparently his bones didn’t think so, either.
     
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