Best fighter you would pick Tszyu to beat?

Of all the elites in the history of 135-140, who's the best one you would favor Tszyu over?

Many seem to favor him over Locche - not sure i agree, but I see the argument.

 

I'd pick him over Camacho

 

As would I.

 

Not sure who's the best of these, but I'd probably favor him over Tippy Larkin, Cotto, Bradley, and Taylor.

 

Would he be favored over the 140 lb Arguello

 

I dont think so

 

Dont agree on cotto. He should beat Bradley, but i wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Timmy outwill
him and outwork him

 

I agree with all but Taylor.


.... Unless you mean Josh.

 

Tszyu would beat the living fuck outta Bradley.

 

Nonsense. Even pacquiao didnt beat the living fuck out of him. And Tszyu never had an easy time against fighters as good as Bradley (bar the judah fight, but ...) Tszyu is very overrated while Braldley is underrated

 

Bradley is actually extremely overrated.

Go look at the success Kendall Holt was able to have against him with short, straight punching, and tell me he would have a chance with Tszyu.

The Pac comparison is irrelevant because the style matchup is different. The closest thing in style Bradley ever saw to Tszyu was Provo, and we saw that life and death struggle.

Bradley doesn't have the power to deter Tszyu from coming forward. And if you can't do that, you had better be a masterful technician. Bradley was not, and the fact that people act like he was makes him absurdly overrated.

Who underrates Tim Bradley???? This fuckin guy is probably gonna make the HOF over James Toney, but he's UNDERrated?????

 

Provo fought nothing.like tszyu imo.

Secondly, no, hatton wasnt a terrific puncher nor a great technician, so i dont think either of them is a prerequisite for beating tszyu.

And i cant forgot how old ass leija gave a good fight to zoo by fighting inside and throwing slow looping punches (before quitting, which was his mo at that point of his career). Bradley could implemente that kind of strategy and execute it much more finely.

As i said, id make zoo a slight favorite, but saying he is a sureshot is greatly overrating him.

And finally, bradley is extremely underrated, especially when it comes to mm. He was a very hard guy to beat cause he was so determined and intelligent. Him getting voted over Toney probably has a lot more to do with voters punishing Toney for pissing hot and the media community sticking for itself, than with Bradley being overrated (anyway, who cares about the hof)

 

I pick Tzysu over most of the guys mentioned in the thread apart from Locche. Cotto, Arguello, Bradley and Taylor are all pretty good match ups for Kostya IMO. Buddy McGirt is a 50/50, which is Tzysu's level. Which is a much higher level than Bradley was ever at. Crawford is probably the best guy I'd pick KT to beat. I do think Tszyu a little overrated, so I don't think he'd ever be beating some of the best ever at 140. Guys like Pac, Chavez, Pryor, Ross, Canz, etc; are all too much for him. Locche is on (or near) that level but his style is really, really good for Kostya.

 

It's hard to handicap Crawford against Tszyu, but I think Bud would have beaten him.

 

A simple eye test tells that Tszyu was fading by time he fought Lejia. Yes, I know, Lejia was more faded, but after the Judah fight Tszyu kinda slowed down.

Look at his reflexes circa 95-00, then look at his reflexes in the mid-00s. It's night and day.

You're also looking at all of Tszyu's flaws, and ignoring Timmy's - like Timmy's vulnerability to right hands.

Hatton is a bad comparison, considering Hatton was a pressure fighter, and although Hatton was hardly a devastating puncher, he was a much heavier handed puncher than Bradley. And AGAIN, to be fair to to Tszyu, we shouldn't be using the circa 2005 Kostya in this matchup.

 

To answer my own question, I would pick Tszyu over Bradley, Cotto, and Camacho, and those are all elite fighters.

I actually disagree about Arguello. For the life of me I can't see Tszyu handling the heat that Pryor took. I think Arguello, even 140 Arguello, had too many weapons and too much substance for Tszyu. I think Alexis knocks him out late.

I also disagree that Tszyu is 50-50 with McGirt. I actually think Tszyu is made to order for McGirt - Buddy takes him apart.

 

I can see that but not really confident in any of those. I'm not really confident going against Tszyu in each of them either. Essentially i'm fence sitting but i don't think he would go 3-0.

 

Well, of those three, Camacho had the ABILITY to beat Tszyu, but I don't trust his intangibles.

I think after tasting Tszyu's firepower, Hector does enough to lose.

If it's prime Camacho, I wouldn't rule him out completely. Tszyu never fought a guy as good as prime Camacho.

 

The way i see it is each member of that trio has attributes and intangibles that could at best give them a win, and at worst provide him with plenty of problems. (although in a losing effort)

The same is true in the other direction as well.

 

I'm not overlooking Timmy vulnerabilities, hell I'm picking Zoo to win the fight.

As for him being past it, I don't believe it. He had one of his best performance ever just before the Hatton fight

 

Tszyu was 35 and inactive when he lost to Hatton.

Never has there been an inactive 35-year-old in his prime.

 

No, but there are wide gaps between prime, beyond their best days and shot.

 

Tszyu definitely wasn't shot.

When a fighter is shot, he's so far gone that a bum could beat him. Shot is Tyson in the Danny Williams fight.

A bum could not have beaten the 05 Tszyu, it took a quality fighter like Hatton to do so.

But do I think Hatton could have beaten the Tszyu of 5-6 years earlier? No.

Even the faded Tszyu of 05 fought Ricky on even terms until the late rounds when youth took over.

 

@George Crowcroft here's one I never considered - do think Tszyu beats Ken Buchanan?

 

I don't necessarily disagree. There is a saying in sports something along the lines of "when you're contemplating retirement you've already retired". It's different in a sport when you can collect millions from a contract kicking or throwing a ball around versus getting punched in the face. Kostya was likely in that mindset, however it was Hatton's approach and not youth which forced the outcome. If it was a chess match where he was narrowly outpointed but never seriously hurt he may have stayed around a while longer. Instead he go outright abused. That may not happened if Tszyu himself was younger, but i don't think it's the kind of fight he ever was comfortable in.

 

Tszyu's timing and reflexes were off against Hatton. And I don't think it's necessarily due to Hatton's style, as Ricky was NEVER a defensive wiz. I think it was due to age and inactivity catching up.

Circa Gonzalez fight version of Tszyu I think would sharpshoot Hatton into bolivian.

 

I don't doubt it but that was the thinking at the the time it actually happened. Boxers beat punchers, swarmers beat boxers and punchers beat swarmers. An elementary version of "styles make fights". It was pretty easy to picture something like what happened when Pacman got too aggressive and ran directly into the Marquez right hand who is not even regarded for that kind of shot. Whereas that was a shocker something like that seemed almost inevitable to occur with Tszyu-Hatton.

Would it have happened if Kostya was 4-5 years younger? The likelihood of course is much greater and it's what i'd bet on, but i still don't see it as a virtual guarantee.

 

That's a good-un; no, probably not. Ken was a menace in his fights with Otero, Kil Lee, and Laguna. He showed he could deal with the size in the Paduano fight, and I think his style is pretty good for Zoo. He wouldn't let Kostya build up momentum as he put lots into plenty of his shots and had the jab and movement to stay primarily out of danger. Although I suppose Kostya could just overpower him.

 

The Paduano fight is what really indicates that Kenny could handle Tszyu.

Tszyu's size is the only thing that makes it competitive.

I do see Buchanan outclassing him.

 

I think Tszyu would beat Laguna though, Ismael's record above 135 isn't great. Which is fair enough, given he was an actual contender as low as bantamweight.