Worst P4P champion ever

I think he knows very well what it means. My guess is that Neil is a depressed women or homosexual who's been "used" for sex by a lot of men with whom he fell in love after they texted him a few times. Which pretty much explains why he turned into A sad little bitter forum troll

 

Is it a compliment in frogville?

 

Canelo

 

I'd rate Mosley below De La Hoya, despite beating him.

Interestingly, Crawford has never been P4P #1. If you're rating him there, Martinez, Calzaghe and Curry can all be considered here.

 

Canelo has become a more cerebral and defensively sound fighter than Oscar ever was. He might have a lower output, but when Canelo throws punches they always have a purpose. Oscar often threw punches just to throw punches.

DLH had advantages over Canelo in handspeed, footspeed, and jab.

 

I think De La Hoya had the advantage in footwork in general. Canelo's feet have never wowed me.

Speaks volumes to the quality of this era. Skillwise, Canelo is essentially a poor man's Gerry Penalosa.

 

As would I.

 

Mosley was a better fighter than Oscar. Shane from 98-01 peaked higher than any version of DLH.

Neither one was the brightest tool in the shed, meaning both depended a lot of their physical gifts... Shane had more physical gifts.

I also feel Mosley would do better in MMs with all time greats. One example being Duran; while both Oscar and Shane would lose to Duran, I see Shane being more competitive.

 

Just going by the ring rankings on boxrec, this is the line of top pound for pound fighters:

Mike Tyson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Pernell Whitaker
Roy Jones Jr
Oscar De La Hoya
Roy Jones Jr
Shane Mosley
Bernard Hopkins
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roman Gonzalez
Gennady Golovkin
Vasyl Lomachenko
Canelo Alverez

 

I think the worst on there are Golovkin, Canelo, Loma and Mosley.

 

I think it just depends on the opponent. Some guys Oscar would fair better against and some Shane would.

 

I understand where you're going with this but I disagree. At no point in his career DLH had the same kind of aura of invincibility Shane had for a brief period. But now, we have the benefit of hindsight and also the benefit of having seen a prime Mosley look totally powerless against a good but not great fighter in Forrest. I believe DLH would have done way better against Forrest, in fact I believe he would have beaten the version that dominated Mosley. Also, no matter what you think about the decisions, I don't think Mosley would have done as good as DLH against Trinidad and Quartey. Finally, I believe an argument could be made that DLH won 1 fight against Mosley.

Yes, Mosley had more physical tools and yes, he probably matches up better against some greats (Mayweather being one IMO) than DLH but I don't think he was a better fighter than DLH. At best, I'd put them on equal footing.

 

Not only does DLH has an argument for winning the second fight, it's pretty much aknowledged as a robbery

 

Y'know he was like nine years past his best for that? And is it actually worse than losing every round to Amir Khan before KOing him?

At his peak, Penalosa was less talented than Canelo, athletically. And he didn't have the help that Canelo did, but skill wise, he was definitely better. For a start, his footwork alone easily outshined Canelo's. So did his defence. He mastered all facets of defence and integrated them perfectly into his style. Canelo's defence is only impressive when he's focussing on it. Their punching form are comparable, but even still Penalosa's is cleaner. He's clearly better at feinting and opening up guards. If Penalosa had the pull with the judges Canelo did, he'd have two wins over Tokuyama and two over Cho, as well as Hiroshi Kawashima making him a top five lock at super-flyweight, so he has the fights to back it up as well.

 

As an aside, looks like estrada may be benefitting from some of the same Mexican clout Canelo benefits from.

 

What fight and fighter are you referring to?

 

I was referring to Penalosa vs Gonzales, but apparently the post that was above mine has gone.

 

Yes I removed it since I realized that basically every fight I saw from Penasola, he was already in his mid 30's (so past his prime). As such, I cannot really do a fair comparison between him and Canelo

 

Out of all the names listed here, I'd say Roman was the "weakest" for the simple fact that his best days (and weights) were already behind him by the time The Ring suddenly decided to acknowledge his existence. IMO, he should've been rated as a leading P4P fighter 2-3 years before he actually was. His late career ranking was mainly a byproduct of HBO's desperate effort to hype up someone as a "successor" to Floyd and Pac. The extent to which they shilled for Roman in those years was absolutely ridiculous and marked a distinct low point in the network's history. (I remember Kellerman looking like he was on the verge of tears after Rungvisai knocked him out, and he went on some incoherent rant about how the judges of the 1st fight were to blame for the rematch result, because their failure to give Roman a razor thin decision in that fight is what convinced him to change his style for the rematch.)

 

Dont knew much about gonzo earlier carreer, but when hbo was hyping him up, went into an argument with poster here about how he was nowhere the best in the sport. Let's just say that the SSR fights arrived soon after, and pretty much proved my point.

And i know this will be disputed by a lot of persons, but i dont think the talent is all that in the lighter weights, and that it is extremely diluted by the ridiculous number of wc there ( 3 or 4 pounds difference, really?) You don't see kickboxers or mt fighters winning titles nearly as often in the higher weight classes

 

I consider Choco a better fighter than Oscar and Canelo, therefore he shouldn't be listed here.

 

Maybe in the early 2010s, but I don't think he still was by 2016.

 

When he destroyed Edgar Sosa in 2015, I'd say he was still better than any version of Oscar/Ginger.

 

Sosa later went the distance with Martinez, who's a fuckin destroyed. It's an excellent performance from Gonzalez IMO. Shows how frightfully devastating Gonzalez could be.

 

Gonzalez clearly won the first Rungvisai fight

 

When I opened this thread the first thing I saw was "Neil is a women or a depressed gay".

When I opened the Hagler RIP thread, the first thing I saw was "Sign this shit........Sign this shit.........."

Fightbeat.

 

Nobody won clearly either any time Gonzalez lost.

 

Kellerman is just an outrageous fan boy whose fandom becomes so strident that he no longer sees straight on these affairs. Utterly untrustworthy pundit.

 

Taking into account when they were ranked #1, I think B-Hop’s 2nd reign may be a pretty strong case.

I think The Ring sort of looked at P4P like an official title, you kind of have to lose it in the ring, even if you’re performing less impressively in victory than other top fighters. After Roy lost the rematch to Tarver in May 04’, they put Hopkins at #1 over Floyd until Hopkins lost in July 05’ against Taylor.

I thought Hopkins looked rather unimpressive in that period. His wins over Allen (3rd fight), Oscar, and Eastman, he looked like it took him about 5-6 rounds to get going, which came back to bite him in the ass against Taylor.

 

agREED...

BHop's PERFORMANCES, While Carrying the "Best Fighter in the World Lb for Lb" Crown, Left a LOT to Be Desired...Sugar Shane Looked More WORTHY of the Moniker in His Bouts w/Taylor, Diaz and Stone for Sure...

RING Magazine Rushed to Fill the Slot, Which is Strange Because They'll Leave Entire Divisions DEVOID of a "Champion", w/No Qualms...

BHop was a Rush to Lb for Lb Judgement and Most Astute Fans KNEW It was Only a Matter of Time Before Floyd Assumed His Rightful Spot as TRUE Lb for Lb King, Post-RJ...It was Obvious...

"Best Fighter in the World Lb for Lb" is SUPPOSED to Be Prestigious and As Such, REED is Perfectly Fine Leaving the Slot VACANT for a Month or So, vs. Rushing to Lb for Lb Judgement as RING Magazine Does...





REED