Better Fighter: Loma or Calzaghe?

What say the forum?

 

In terms of ability, I think it's Loma. In terms of résumé, I think it's Joe.

 

Loma clearly, both in ability and resume. Calzaghe gets way too much credit for being ''undefeated '

 

Loma for both, but it's pretty close. Loma could widen the gap in the next few years

 

I don't see what wins Loma has that are better than Kessler, Eubank and Hopkins

 

The pro-Calz argument is that Calz was just tougher, both mentally and physically, imo. Especially mentally.

 

Walter's and Rigondeaux were both top p4p when Loma absolutely clowned them. None of the guys Calzaghe fought were at the time (maybe Hopkinswas in the bottom 10 if you were generous, and it was far from a decisivewin). Russell is about the same as Kessler imo

 

Ohh please. Kessler was a vastly better fighter than both Russell and Walters.

Walters was an overwhelming underdog against Loma, and Russell wasn't very highly rated coming in.

Calz-Kessler was seen as a 50-50 fight.

 

Yeah, Loma really looked like a mental midget against lopez. Might be an aberration, since he fought.back pretty hard.against Salido

 

Walter's koed Donaire, that's a stratosphere better than Kessler whole career. Who cares if Russel wasn't rated at the time, he has proven to be a dominant champ (true against limited opposition). That would be like not giving Sanchez a lot if credit for beating Nelson

 

Rigondeaux was 38 and moving up from SBW (which he was already small for) to 130. That win means about as much Calzaghe's win over Jones IMO.

Walters is completely meh. Nowhere near as good as Eubank IMO.

 

Where's this idea that Loma is a mental midget come from?

 

Gary Russell's never proven anything, that's the problem.

And Walters KOing Donaire means little, since Nonito is absolutely shitty above 122.

It's a downright insult to compare Mikkel Kessler to Nick Walters.

Kessler's win over Froch alone is superior to Walters' resume.

 

Jones was completely shot at the time he fought Calzaghe and everyone knew it. Rigondeaux was still undefeated and a top p4p when Loma clowned hin. Many were picking him to expose Loma even though he was smaller. Eubank as good as Walters?? Especially at the time of the Calzaghe fight ?? That's a little bit ridiculous imo and I feel mostly based on popularity

 

But yeah, I admit I might be overrating Walter a bit based on his wins vs 2 smaller ''great's'' (and he might simply caught them at the sight time too). Still, I don't see a close but clear victory over Kessler as that great of an achievement. Kessler was a good fighter, but Ward really exposed his level imo. And I still feel Walter is a better win than a past his best (and hugely overrated) Eubanks, and basically a 50/50 fight with an old Hopkins.

 

Yeah, I know Jones was shot. It was my point, actually. Rigo was way outsized and way past his prime - undefeated or not. Hardly a noteworthy win.

Eubank was way better than Walters, I don't even know why it's a question.

 

People really underestimate Walters. His wins against donaire and darch were pretty huge

 

How were they? A past prime BW and a really past prime flyweight?

 

Yeah, looking back at them, its true that they aren't as impressive as i rebember. Still, the was he blew them out was pretty insane

 

Darch peaked at 112-115.

Donaire peaked at 112-118.

 

This.

 

doing f all for the first 6 rounds of the lopez fight

 

I see Loma as a guy who depends more on conditions to be ideal in order to thrive.

Calz in many ways was more resilient and meaner.

Both were pretty boys, but Joe had the mentality of a mean, rough guy.

Loma has the mentality more befitting of a pretty boy.

 

For all of my criticism of Calzaghe, it is obvious he was a super determined fighter. I feel you are being a bit harsh on Loma but as of now, this is a clear advantage for Calzaghe

 

These were The Ring's P4P rankings at the end of 2015 and 2016. Walters wasn't in either one.

2015:

1. Roman Gonzalez
2. Sergey Kovalev
3. Gennady Golovkin
4. Andre Ward
5. Guillermo Rigondeaux
6. Terence Crawford
7. Manny Pacquiao
8. Saul Alvarez
9. Shinsuke Yamanaka
10. Timothy Bradley

2016:

1. Roman Gonzalez
2. Andre Ward
3. Sergey Kovalev
4. Gennady Golovkin
5. Terence Crawford
6. Vasyl Lomachenko
7. Guillermo Rigondeaux
8. Saul Alvarez
9. Shinsuke Yamanaka
10. Carl Frampton

These were The Ring's rankings at the end of 07 and 08, during the time frame that Calzaghe fought Hopkins.

07:

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Joe Calzaghe
6. Israel Vazquez
7. Miguel Angel Cotto
8. Ricky Hatton
9. Ronald (Winky) Wright
10. Rafael Marquez

08:

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Antonio Margarito
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Angel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Ricky Hatton

Hopkins was coming off back-to-back wins over Tarver and Wright heading into the Calzaghe fight, and went on to dominate Pavlik in his next fight afterward. His P4P status was unquestionable at that time.

As far as Rigo goes, he was P4P rated based on his quality at a far lower weight than what he actually fought Loma at.

 

I made a thread on ESB immediately after the fight and I still stand by every word of it.

"There's been a lot of talk on here about what happened and I tend to think that all of the extremities are off the mark. As you'd expect, the truth (at least, IMO) is somewhere in the middle. Teo is not the best thing since sliced bread, and Lomachenko is no hype job. I had it 7-5, and I can see it 8-4 Lopez, that is not dominating someone. But at the same time, the idea that Loma deserved a draw, or heaven forbid a win is foreign to me. I can't see it. No matter how twist the scorecards and focus on individual exchanges. I just can't behind that.

The below is not making excuses, if you can actually comprehend the definition of the word, then you'll notice that I didn't actually excuse anything here. And I don't intend to. Loma went from my #3 P4P, to around ten. He lost, and so he's getting degraded for it. That's what happens. Anyway, the below is what I think may have happened behind the scenes, and it is 100% educated guessing.

I think that the Campbell fight played a part here. Loma was momentarily hurt there. It's not too far a reach to say that Loma figured he'd take less chances as he moved up. Campbell's power is a little underrated, but he's no puncher. Loma's confidence may well have took a knock. Combined with every man and his dog saying that Lopez's only chance was to get Lomachenko early. I tend to think that Loma's team may have (obviously) underestimated Lopez, and simplified him as a fighter. Their plan was obviously to keep the **** away from him early on, and then start upping the ante late. If Loma's confidence was off a little, that and being told to not be aggressive early may have explained his inactivity in the first half. In the second half, Lomachenko started turning it up but he didn't have the same 'wow' factor that he normally has when he turns everything up. Compared to other fights, Loma looked like he normally does in the early rounds. As in, he looked like he was just getting in the swing of things before he turns it to 'full-matrix mode' like he did in the late rounds vs Linares, Salido, Pedraza and Campbell &c. I tend to think that Loma's team will make a much, much more complex plan next time, that'll start with taking Lopez's 1-2 away then take it from there. But who knows.

I really don't wanna take away from Teo though. The guy showed a brilliant jab, and an extremely impressive ability to be the boss in there. Not to mention the fact that his evident power had Lomachenko shook from day, and his body punches were nasty. I hate that Lomachenko is getting shat on so much, but also the amount of credit Teo is getting. Like I said, I don't wanna **** on him, and don't get me wrong, he deserves a lot of credit. He went from Commey to Lomachenko and just dethroned the best fighter on the planet fgs. He's undisputed champ in the most historical division in boxing, at age 23. It's genuinely legendary stuff, but he absolutely did not 'out-class' Loma, nor did he 'expose' him. He bossed him around and showed the world that Lomachenko isn't unbeatable. But I'm quite positive he won't repeat it.

I'm sure many will see the above as a Loma fan 'exuse making', but in reality I haven't actually excused anything and I'm not even a big Loma fan. This is all theory crafting, and 100% speculation, but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. And BTW I've bookmarked this post for when it comes true and I look like a genius."

 

Calzaghe has got an insane amount of mileage out of outworking a 43 year old.

Loma, by far.

 

And let's not pretend that bhop doesnt have a case for winning that fight.

At the end of the day, he only dod a bit better than Pascal did...

 

Loma got a far more insane amount of mileage out of beating a 37-year old career bantam/jr FW up at 130.

 

Rigo, fine. But Pavlik & Wright? What notable wins do those guys have at the weight Hopkins fought them at? Obv Hopkins was still capable at that advanced age but also vulnerable.....like Calzaghe Taylor & Pascal were too erratic to control & slow to an old mans pace, too. More due to style than quality