Better Fighter: Loma or Calzaghe?

Pavlik beat Taylor above 160 in their rematch.

 

Well remembered. Fair enough.

 

I think in my mind Loma is more talented, but be that as it may, I would never see Mr. Slap Avalanche Bemusement try to stink his way to not lose against say like a Bob Foster like Loma did with vaunted puncher Teofimo Lopez. I mean, the slap avalancher would get brutally ktfko'd, but he'd try to win

 

The slap avalanche bemuser never fought a man ~1.5-2 natural classes bigger than him.

 

Lomachenko never made 20 title defences.

 

In welsh ice rinks against names plucked out Frank Warrens phonebook of nobodys

 

Sven Ottke made 21 title defenses....

 

If it were easy, someone else would've done it.

 

Sven Ottke doesn't have names to back it up. Calzaghe does.

 

Formidable all time great Sven Ottke did

 

Honestly, if you take out Kessler, Ottke list of contenders (si no Hopkins or even an old Jones) is probably stronger than Calzaghe. And even with Kessler, Calzaghe edges him but not by much

 

Take away Hopkins and Kessler and theres not all that much between the rest of it. Yes Calzaghe was better and greater but I think he's gotten more extra mileage out of those two wins than is justified

 

In reality, Ottke shouldn't have done it. And his reign started with Charles Brewer and ended with Armand Krajnc. Calzaghe didn't have any controversial decisions before Hopkins and beat Eubank to take the title, and unified vs Kessler.

Comparing Calzaghe's reign to Ottke's is laughable.

 

Yes he did, vs Robin Reid. And a lot of garbage fighters managed to successfully defend their title numerous times. Doesn't mean much when it's against cherry picked crap

 

Eubank, Bika, Reid and Lacy is still far better than Ottke's best wins. And Calzaghe beat Ottke's best wins much clearer than he did. The mileage he gets out of those wins should be far more than wins over Russell and Linares.

 

Eubanks,. Bika, Reid and Lacy is not better than Glen Johnson, Mundine, Reid and Tate. Overall yes Calzaghe had a better career due to Kessler, Hopkins and even old Jones. But as Hut said, he gets far too many mileage out of them

 

Please, Reid clearly lost that. Calzaghe didn't cherry pick that much. It's way overblown. He's 10-0 vs Ring Rated contenders. And he was supposed to fight Tate as well, who also ranked.

 

Tate is no big win. He was in his final fight and only got the eliminator due to cuts and swelling. Neither is Johnson, especially when Shieka, Branco and Vanderpool could beat him too.

Eubank even at that point was still leagues above them.

 

Glen Johnson is not a big win but Lacy is

To be honest we pretty much covered everything and we are both pretty much sticking to our initial position (though I might retract my initial statement and say Lomachenko resume is better, but not clearly better, than Cal). Once again, it seems Calzaghe has a pretty polarizing effect. I suppose it mostly comes down to me not rating Eubanks as highly as you do

 

Johnson was mostly a journeyman at that stage of his career. He often came up short against a level of opponent that Lacy could reliably beat pre-Calzaghe.

Johnson didn't become a top fighter until he moved up another weight and teamed with a new trainer who completely overhauled his style.

 

True, Johnson was a bit of a cutie and had a journey man mentality at this stage of his career. Still, he must have been highly motivated for a title fight (never saw the fight vs Ottke) and I think he was much better than plodder Lacy

 

Except I think he took that fight on short notice (as he often did with fights at that stage of his career), and it was a tentative and indecisive effort from both fighters.

A '99 Johnson would most likely build up an early lead vs. a peak Lacy, then get outworked and outmuscled down the stretch in the manner that he was against Sheika and Sosa.

 

REED Isn't Sure Kessler was "Better" Than Gary Russell @ All, Certainly Not VASTLY...

Kessler Did MORE in His Career By Virtue of Fighting More Than 1nce a Fucking Year, Which is What Russell's Become Known For...





REED

 

The Answer is Loma...

@ No Point In Calzaghe's Career was he EVER (Arguably) THE Best Fighter in the World Lb for Lb...Whereas Loma PROBABLY Was for a Period of Time...





REED

 

But would that be a reflection on Loma, or a reflection on the fighters of Calzaghe's era? (which included the likes of Hopkins, RJ, DeLaHoya, Tito, Mosley, Mayweather, and Pacquiao at the heights of their careers)

 

A Reflection on Calzaghe in REED's Opinion...

Only a Select FEW Fighters Ever (Rightfully) Reach the Very Top of Lb for Lb Lists...Of Those You Listed, Only RJ, Floyd and Pacquiao were TRULY "The Best Fighter in the World Lb for Lb", in REED's Opinion...

DeLa, Tito and Mosley Played Hot Potato w/the Label as the Boxing Media was Busy "RoyCotting", and Hopkins Only Wore the Crown AFTER Tarver KO'ed Roy...

Put it This Way, Calzaghe WOULDN'T Have Been Lb for Lb in This Era Either, While Loma PROBABLY Was...




REED

 

Exactly. People also forget how calzaghe was refusing to fight top fighters for such a long time. His duck job on johnson was shameful to say the least....

Loma was/is overrated, but he was a lot more willing to prove himself. And that counts for a lot

 

I disagree... if we transpose Calzaghe's career and achievements into the current era, I think he gets the same discussion as a top P4P candidate as Loma, G, and others whose names have been bandied about in recent years.

 

But You Would Have to ALSO Transpose the RELUCTANCE Calzaghe Exhibited During Much of his Reign, as JoM Noted...

Back Then There were 2 Types of "Euro Fighters" - Those That DARED to Test Themselves @ the Highest Level, Even if it Meant Fighting on American Soil...Hamed, Hatton, Lennox, Wlad and Vitali...They All Did It...

Then There was That Other Group of "Euro Fighters" - The Sven Ottke's, the MichalSHITski's, the Calzaghe's, etc...Rightfully, as More and More Fighters from Their Side of the Pond Fought Abroad, This Particular Ilk Endured Hits to Their Legacies...& the Hail Damage Remains...

To Calzaghe's Credit, He EVENTUALLY Got Around To It, But Not Until the Very End of His Career, Against Past Prime Versions of Guys He COULD Have Faced a Decade Prior, Conceivably...

Loma and Triple G Exhibited NONE of Calzaghe's Reluctance, Be It WHO They Fought or WHERE...If Calzaghe Had Even 2 MORE U.S. Fights On His Ledger (Preferably EARLIER In his Super Middle Reign), His "O" Would Carry a LOT More Weight Than it Does...





REED

 

I've seen plenty of criticism on this forum of G either being "protected" or "lacking ambition." This thread has several posts making that claim, including one from yourself: Fighters that were ruined by being to protected

Regardless, I wouldn't expect Calzaghe to be rated #1 for the bulk of his career, but following his unification victories over Lacy and Kessler (or whatever the modern equivalents of those fighters would be) he would've had about as much a basis for being ranked #1 as anyone else in the sport. He'd certainly have as much a claim to the spot as G did when he was rated #1 at the end of 2017.