The best guy in history you would pick Oscar over

From 135-154, who's the best fighter/s you would pick Oscar to beat?

 

He MIGHT be able to shade Carmen Basilio over 12 rounds.

He'd literally have to win 7 razor thin rounds, probably the first 7 at that.

It would be the greatest act of fight management but in terms of his height, jab and movement, the opportunity is there.

Basilio was about 5'7", he could cut, and he usually relied on the strong finish.

If he can't manage that- and he probably can't, it's just not guaranteed- then he needs to start looking at guys like McLarnin, Canzoneri.

 

At 147, I'd pick him over Palomino and make him about 50-50 vs. Benitez.

 

Agree with the first. STRONGLY STRONGLY disagree with the second.

Benitez was a level above Oscar, and would school the shit outta him.

 

Benitez vs Oscar is basically Pea vs Oscar with a fresher Pea. Oscar loses wide.

 

Disagree. That's a huge exaggeration.

 

On top of the fact that Benitez was a bigger man than Whitaker and had more pop.

Oscar never was particularly good with slicksters.

Even a 2nd rate slickster like Carr gave him a difficult fight.

It's a huge stretch picking him over the Benitez from the Palomino fight.

I guess he has an outside puncher's chance, but given Will went the distance the Hearns and 15 with Leonard, if he's really on his game, Oscar's puncher's chance is mininal.

Oscar can't outbox Benitez, and he wasn't active enough to outwork him.

If he TRIED to outwork Benitez, he would just fade late... as always.

The guy was too stiff and intense in there, juxaposed Benitez, who was always loose and cool, therefore had good stamina.

 

I know this isn't how it works, but anybody here who sees Oscar going 15 with Tommy Hearns, Duran, Ray Leonard........needs glasses.

He can't go 15 in those fights and he can't beat Benitez.

Oscar struggles once he can't land cleanly, he's not like Vargas or Chavez, the sort of guy who will just keep coming forward, hitting anything.

 

Leonard stops Oscar in a 15 rounder and I would bet anything on that.

Montreal Duran gives him a beating. Oscar lasts and loses wide on the cards if he runs. If he stands and fights with Duran, yeah, I think he gets stopped late... with a body shot.

Hearns blasts Oscar at some point. Oscar was too tough for me to say it happens early, but I think Tommy gets him out of there within like 7-10.

 

Part of what hurt Oscar so badly vs Whittaker was that Oscar had gotten used to the idea that when he moved his hands, he landed.

It wasn't that he believed his own skills were bad, he just felt that people might see a sort of shortcoming if he kept his hands moving and not landing.

It made him feel that he was just like the others, by "others" I mean the Mexican fighters who apply pressure and don't look "Slick".

Pea made him not want to move his hands, and when you make a guy hold his hands, you beat him.

 

When you look at the frequency at which Quartey landed his jab/cross on Oscar, you can plainly see that he has no shot in Hell with Tommy Hearns.

 

The Vargas fight shows you what Oscar excelled at.

The Whitaker fight shows you what he failed at.

Stronger guys with no massive speed who fought in intense heavy bursts.........he handled that. He went to the ropes, got his right hand open and flat to his face, his chin behind his shoulder, rolling, defusing them......then getting them out center-ring and pot-shotting them with the jab, wearing them down, pulling their teeth.

EDIT: an awful lot of that was the Floyd Sr effect. Floyd Sr had to remind him to let his hands go......"Brrrrrrrrrrrrp" .

Whittaker? Oscar collapsed when he couldn't land, he felt embarrassed and wasn't comfortable fighting a style that was beneath him. He never had that mentality to throw 100 shots a round and just grind a guy down. It's not that Pea was going to brutalize him with counters, Oscar just never had it in his makeup to go all in.

I'd actually give Oscar a better chance vs John Mugabi than versus Benitez. Honestly.

 

Oscar held his hands in that fight. He wouldn't jab with the jabber and once that happened.........Oscar had no plan B.

That's Oscar in a nutshell, no plan B.

 

Mugabi-Oscar is an interesting fight I've never thought of before.

It's possible Oscar is too good for Mugabi, but it's also possible Mugabi is just plain too big and powerful for Oscar.

Jackson murders Oscar at 154, that I'm certain of.

 

The thing is for me, Oscar KNOWS what to do vs Mugabi and he is comfortable- in as much as O was ever "comfortable" doing it......

Get on your toes, pump your jab, move and move, flick out the fast right, keep the stronger but stupider man moving and thinking.

Oscar is like one of these people who doesn't know how to eat finger-food cos he never ate with his fingers. The idea of putting your head on a guys chest and just working your ass off, he couldn't do it.

If you had to chew and spit coke then Oscar would be clean.

 

Anyways, Basilio sort of walking after Oscar trying to draw Oscar into a war is a fight Oscar can win.

Oscar is taller, faster, he's got the jab and the hook and he was very good at landing body shots on shorter men.

He'd bring up some facial damage on Basilio and that would encourage Oscar....and Oscar needs encouragement, it's his makeup.

Oscar loved a shorter pressure-guy who came to him and allowed Oscar to be that fast mover guy that didn't have to figure anything out.

 

Oscar beats Tszyu at 140. Tszyu is probably the best junior welter I'd favor him over.

 

Yeah because Tszyu is a shorter guy, a sort of thinker who needs to get set. He's strong and powerful but he gets too eager, walks onto stuff, and he's not a volume pressure guy who lands anywhere.

He's made for Oscar to pick apart.

 

He could out-box Arguello @ 140

 

I have absolutely no doubt Oscar clearly loses to both Basilio and Benitez.

 

I don't agree with the notion that Benitez is simply "a better version of Whitaker" - Whitaker had the extra advantage of having an awkward southpaw style, he was always tougher and grittier than Benitez, and he could handle himself better on the inside IMO. He also was sitting down more on his punches and punching harder at that stage of his career. On top of that, I still think DeLaHoya won that fight fair and square, despite all that Whitaker did to make him look bad.

I agree that Benitez would pose plenty of problems for Hoya and be a handful for him, but that doesn't automatically equate to a win.

In order for Benitez to beat DeLaHoya, he would have to succeed against the best all-around talent that he actually beat in his career. Although he was able to take Leonard and Hearns each into the 15th round, he was largely overpowered by each of them en route. I don't think those fights make surefire cases that Benitez beats Hoya simply because Oscar was less great than either of them.

 

He might. Just. I fancy AA.

 

He probably does lose to Basilio. But it's as high as I can go on the list where Oscar still has a chance to win, to do something, to maybe eek it out.

 

Oscar should be the favorite over AA at 140, though I suspect he runs late.

At 135, I solidly favor Arguello.

Obviously, at 130 peak Arguello massacres green Oscar.

 

There's actually a lot of quality welterweights I pick Oscar to beat: Palomino, Cuevas, Brown, Crawford, Spence, Forrest, P.Williams, Honeyghan, Starling, McGirt, Cotto, Margarito.

I think that list is fair, and gives him ample credit.

 

Mayweather at 140 is his peak IMO, and it's incredibly arguable he doesn't win that one.

 

I think it would be basically the same fight at 140, tbh.

Oscar keeps it close for awhile, but Floyd pulls away late.

Youre ultimately dealing with one guy with genius level ring IQ versus a guy with mediocre ring IQ. One guy who never faded versus a guy who always faded.

 

Prime ODH vs. PBF at 147 is highly debatable.

 

In his prime, he beats Mayweather clearly at 147 imo.

 

I can understand the rationale for thinking prime Oscar beats Floyd. However, I think if they were to fight at 135-147, Floyd wouldn't have been as wary of Oscar's size and power as he was up at 154.