Ruiz and Arreola are not fat

I don't think anyone disagrees with the following statement:

Ruiz was always a bum, Chisora level.

 

The lot of em are bums.

Fury is the only guy in the division who isn't sucky from a historical perspective.

 

I wouldn't go that far. Usyk and Joshua solidly on the level of Douglas, Byrd, Witherspoon, Norton and such, IMO.

 

Usyk had his hands full with shopworn Chisora, whom you labeled as bum

 

That's not what I saw. I saw Usyk win a very wide decision, hurt and easily beat Chisora after loads of injuries and inactive. Not to mention there was a massive size difference and Chisora is an awful style for Usyk.

 

Imagine Ruiz knew how to slip a shot like Tyson

 

Parker had his hands full with an even worse version. Vitali had his hands full with a better version. The only man who handles Chisira with ease is Fury.

 

I don't think size difference should matter when we evaluate fighters within the same weight division, but I respect your take. Also, I thought Usyk won clearly, about 8-4, but not without trouble.

Personally I'd say Usyk was a splendid cruiserweight but not a special heavyweight. Also, I do believe this group of (relatively poor) heavyweights is a bit underrated, since an extremely good cruiser was troubled by a veteran who isn't in a top-10.

 

Chizora has bummish qualities but he also has elite qualities. His doggedness, resolve, strength and pressure are elite. His power, variety and footwork are not. One does complement/undermine tge other.

I think he'd give Ken Norton all hell. This isnt Duane Bobick.

 

Not to forget David Haye (as I believe you'd want to)

But yeah, my conclusion is that Chisora is a pretty useful guy since everyone struggles with him, not that they all are bums

 

I think in any cluster of fighters there's always at least one guy whi had something about him that woukd "bother" a better fighter from a better group.

 

Witherspoon and Norton would have killed Usyk. Absolutely murdered him.

Usyk is quality... at cruiser. He's shit at heavyweight.

AJ is a big, dumb, fragile oaf.

 

Nah Haye lucked out and Chisorah was coming off a hard 12 rounds with Vitali.

 

I didn't see any luck there. Most experts picked Haye. The most accurate prediction was Bellew's who had sparred plenty with both and mentioned how Haye's punching power would decide the fight, as it did.

Haye was s true banger and a formidable fighter when he was still healthy and when he got to counter

 

I don't know what would or wouldn't have happened but my suspicion is that a guy like Chisora would have given Norton a far better fight than Usyk.

Usyk is better now than Chisora is......now.

The night Chisora went 12 with Vitali....he beats Usyk.

It's all relative.

What annoys me about todays guys is .......why did Arreola wait so long to get down to 228lbs? Why doesn't Ruiz know how to move his fucking head and slip inside with those fast hands?

Why did the Ruiz vs Arreola fight only get made out of desperation when it could have been made a long time ago?

Will Arreola now go back to being fat?

Will Ruiz drop a few more pounds and keep training?

 

Andy Lee said last night that the word on that fight is that Haye was utterly exhausted when he landed the hook that fomented the ending.

Also nobody ever had a good fight immediately after losing to/fighting Vitali. Nobody. Just how it is.

Haye picked his battles very carefully, it's why I hated him.

I am not saying Haye got "Lucky" on the night- he always had a plan.

But things went his way, as it were.

 

By the way, Arreola lost clearly. He got outworked down the stretch. I didn;'t agree with the Mexican "ATTENTION TOTAL EN CALIFORNIA!!!" ESPN cards.

They were sucking Ruiz off bigtime.

But Arreola lost, clearly. Couldn't maintain the workrate. Simple.

 

He's frustrating. From the first round onwards I keep saying to the missus/myself 'right hand to the body'. Its right there & its needed. He catches on about round 7/8 to great success but even then only ever throws it as a single shot, never to set up the lead hook....the only combo he uses is 1-2-3 to the head. It feels like there's the making of a fighter in there but there's a strange autopilot passivity to him

 

Ruiz vs Quarry, what a fight that would be, Quarry would be looking for that right counter all night and he wouldn't be pushing it out either like Arreola.

Ruiz for his part would be bringing his strength and his bullish attacks.

Yeah, he seems to find that right downstairs effortlessly. Same with Wlad where he had the left hook available but kept pumping a 1-2.

It's a mentality, a sort of "it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing.

I am angry I didn't cover the distance bet as once Ruiz tasted power- and realized he could outbox Arreola fairly handily thanks to Arreolas dipping energy levels- he just mainained the same ploddish endeavour, moving his hands, winning but not dominating.

 

Did anybody else call a second knockdown in the 3rd round? I kind of thought the ropes held Ruiz up but that's from my ESPN stream. Might need to rewatch it.

ESPN comentadores gave the 3rd to Ruiz

 

Just rewatching it, his back touches the ropes but he's coming out of the squat as he touches the ropes.

It was a "squat shot", not a knockdown.

But Ruiz does not win that fucking 3rd round, Senores Comentadores.

 

That's very doubtful. Norton should've lost to Young IMO, I have no doubt a southpaw with a higher workrate and much better footwork gives him major issues win, loss or draw. Witherspoon also had his fair share of issues. It's no stretch to say that Usyk is better than Page or Tubbs. Cruiserweight is heavyweight, Usyk is the same size as Ali and Holmes. He can't be shit at one weight but quality at the other.

 

I'm Bob Foster, and I paid for this message.



J/K I get the point.

 

This is absolutely true, unless we accept a premise that modern heavyweights are bigger, and that the increased size, ripped physique or not, is beneficial for them. And I assume most do not accept such premise.

 

Usyk is bigger and/or more athletic than a lot of the guys that Norton fought. People like LeDoux, Bobick, the version of Quarry he faced. It's not hard to see Usyk improving markedly on their efforts.

I don't like Usyk, I think he's awkward and clunky, but he's effective and he's a big enough guy.

Let's face it, he's dealt with Chisora more handily than Parker, who wound up on his arse.

 

Howay. He sparked him clean out.

MTF

 

While we are undoubtedly in a through in boxing talent wise, hw are beyond terrible and unfortunately, I doubt this will change anytime soon. If you are big and athletic, there is a ton of sporting opportunities out there for you that doesn't require getting hit in the face constantly. Not only that, but you will be pampered and given a ton of scholarship. It s a no brainer. No wonder a lot of contenders in recent years are failed athletes who only took boxing late as their plan B.

 

While there's definitely something true behind that, most great fighters start off pretty young and develop a taste for it. It's not quite like a talented athlete is given a crossroads choice between a scholarship at a prestigious university to play football or getting punched in the face. It's parents and community that guide those choices in large part from early on. Even as a boxing fan i can't blame them.

Yes of course many boxers have had other options but it takes different "breed" to become a prize fighter, and a special one to become great.

 

No. You're wrong. They are all playing football.

 

Football is writing guys off faster than ever. Boxings looking an easier way out all the time.