Would any featherweight of the last 35 years beat Sanchez?

At that time marquez was struggling (and got beat) by lil hagler. I'm not so sure he was a sure pick against hamed

 

Of Course it's Relevant...

Diaz COULDN'T Punch for Shit, Hamed COULD and for All of JMM's Counterpunching Mastery, His Defense SUCKED...

Just Because YOU Fail to See the Comparison Doesn't Lessen the Relevance of It....





REED

 

i disagree. bringing up juan diaz, which happened 10 pounds north (and whom jmm knocked out no less) doesn't make much sense.

 

It Doesn't Make Sense to YOU...

Just as Roy Jones Beating WHOlio Gonzalez Didn't Make Sense to YOU...Until After the Fact...

Just as YOU Saw "Subtle Science" in a Certified Cheating PUNCHING BAG Like Antonio Margarita...Just as YOU Saw "Hunter" Characteristics in Rocky Juarez, Despite His Clear and Present RELUCTANCE To Fire...

YOU See a Lot of WEIRD Ass Shit That Eventually BLOWSthefuckUP In Your Face Doub...Leave REED Out of Your Madness Please...

Again, Juan Diaz COULD NOT PUNCH, for Shit...Prince Naseem Hamed COULD...JMM-Diaz was "Fight of the Year" When it Took Place...Marquez Was a Great Counter Puncher, TOUGH, Proud Warrior, But his Defense SUCKED...

No Way You Can Watch Marquez Go Life and Death w/Diaz, Yet Automatically EXPECT Him to Beat Hamed...

If That Doesn't "Make Sense" to YOU, So Be It...



REED

 

Marquez is an overrated fighter. A great with an all time greats number.

As it relates to this thread, Sanchez was an ATG independent of being the style bugaboo of a better fighter.

 

Hamed was shameless and blatant in his ducking of marquez for yearS. Plural

This revisionist crap don't move me

Marquez beat borewood and John

He nearly killed diaz. Vicious ko

 

The TRUTH Doesn’t “Move” You?

Again, When Hamed Faced Augie Sanchez That Was SUPPOSED to Be JM Marquez…Marquez Chose NOT to Take the Fight…

All That “Hamed Ducked JMM” Talk is Merely Fan Girl Bullshit…






REED

 

No, the TRUTH Is In the TIMELINE...

JMM Was an Unknown Quantity to Everyone Outside of the WBO...His "Prove it to Me" Moment to the Boxing Masses was Against Norwood, a Fight Sooooooooooo GOD AWFUL, It Actually Set Marquez BACK a Bit, Despite the Victory...Just Listen to the HBO Commentary of the Bout...

Marquez and Norwood Fought September of '99...Hamed Unified w/Cesar Soto in October of '99...Soooo Hamed "Ducked" JMM to Unify???

Just Prior to Soto, Hamed Faced Kelley, Wilfredo Vazquez (WBA Champ), McCullough and Paul Ingle...Kelley, Vazquez and McCullough were All Bigger Names/Bigger Money Fights Than Marquez Would've Been @ the Time...And Ingle was a Bigger Name in the UK, Which is Where that Bout Took Place...

After Soto, Hamed Faced Bungu, Augie Sanchez (Which was SUPPOSED to Be JMM), Then Barrera...

After the Norwood Debacle, it Wasn't Until the Robbie Peden Fight in '02 That JMM Firmly Reestablished Himself...

It's Funny How Hamed Gets ALL the Blame for "Ducking" JMM, But it's Not as If Barrera or Morales Faced him Back Then Either...

Head to Head, It's an INTRIGUING Fight for Sure, but the Prince's POWER Coupled w/JMM's Leaky Ass Defense Makes it Hard for REED to Fathom JMM "Destroying" Hamed...

REED Could Even See a Barrera-Hamed Level SCHOOLING, But it's Not Like Barrera "Destroyed" Hamed Either...



REED

 

REED is correct. Marquez wasn't perceived as a dangerous, and formidable fighter in the sport until the Pedan fight. No one gave a flying fuck about him circa 99-00.

 

He was really hyped by a small part of the boxing community, but he was mostly unkown or not rated very highly

 

he was pretty hyped in some circles. i know i was following him long before the peden fight.

 

Good post, but Marquez actually lost vs Norwood. Don't get me wrong, with what we know now, Marquez has to be the favorite vs Hamed, but to claim it's a surefire victory for him is simply retarded.

 

Depends on when they fought. By 2000-01, Marquez would beat Hamed. Had they got it on circa 97-98, I'm not sure if JMM is ready for a peak Hamed.

 

barrera and morales wanted no part of marquez either but at least he wasnt their fucking mandatory for yearS

marquez fought here most of his early career and everyone here knew he was the real deal. no disputing hameds cowardice.

 

The WBO was the LEAST Respected of the Sanctioning Bodies Back Then...FACT...Which Means JMM Was the LEAST Respected, LEAST Known "Mandatory Challenger" Back Then...FACT...

Hamed was THE 1st Bit of Legitimacy the WBO Could Latch Itself Onto...FACT...

Hamed UNIFIED w/IBF Champion Tom Johnson...FACT...Hamed Debuted In America, In New York, Against a New Yorker in Kevin Kelley, Who had 1 Loss and 32 KO's in 50 Fights...FACT...

Hamed Then Beat the Reigning WBA Champion, Wilfredo Vazquez, Who was Later STRIPPED for Facing Hamed...FACT...A Year Later, Hamed Unified w/WBC Champion, Cesar Soto...FACT...A Month PRIOR to Hamed-Soto, JMM Shat the Bed vs. Lil' Hagler...FACT...

You're FAN GIRL'ing Right Now, But There's "No Disputing" Hamed Had MORE MEANINGFULfuckingFIGHTS @ His Disposal, for MOREfuckingMONEY Than He'd Have Gotten for Facing Marquez...FACT...

If Hamed was a "Coward", He'd Have Found a Way OUT of Facing JM Marquez August of 2020...Instead, it was JMM Who BACKEDthefuckOUT...FACT...

You CANNOT Dispute Any of This Neil (Feel Free to TRY), So Let the Shit Go...


REED

 

hamed knew he would get his ass beat by marquez. an all time great fighter, and also had the perfect style to whip / tame hamed.

Marquez beat norwood in a stinker, dropped him twice. norwood was an awful fighter to watch each and every time out. when you are avoided like marquez you must fight the norwoods and gainers because the bigger name guys want no part of the imminent ass whipping.

looks to me like hamed fought a bunch of older/mediocre guys who were never as good as marquez that you listed.

 

JMM Hadn't Beaten ANYONE Worth a Flying Fuck @ the Time, Neil...

You Act Like JMM Was the Fighter We Think of TODAY, But He WASN'T Back Then...He Wasn't "an All Time Great Figther" IN THAT MOMENT OF TIME...& His "Style" Had Only Been On Display Against NON-DESCRIPT Opposition of the Day...FACT!!!

It's Like Saying Spence/Crawford "Ducked" Boots Ennis/Vergil Ortiz but Honestly, Boots and Verg Have Done MORE Than JMM Did @ the Time, to WARRANT the Title Shot Marquez Never Received vs. Hamed...Boots DESTROYED Lipinets...Verg KO'ed Reese Hooker...Who EXACTLY Had JMM Beaten to Rubber Stamp Him as THE Opponent for Hamed???...WHEN???...

HBO Fed Him Lil' Hagler FOR THAT PURPOSE and JMM's Stock FELL in the Immediate Aftermath...That's a FACT...1 Month Later, Hamed Unified w/Soto...

Again, You're FAN GIRL'ing...

Perhaps You SAW JMM Fight In Person, You Developed an Affinity for Him, So Your FEELINGS Are Affected...Doesn't Alter the FACT Hamed Fought HIGHER PROFILE, MORE ACCOMPLISHED Fighters In Lieu of JMM Though...

9 Times Out of 10, YOU'RE QUICK to Justify Fighter's Doing as Hamed Did, But Your EXCEPTION is JMM for Some Reason...Because You're On Some FAN GIRL Ass Shit, That's Why...

If Hamed "Knew He Would Get His Ass Beat" By JMM, WHY Was He Willing to Face Him August 2000, Neil???...If JMM was as Confident as YOU Are in His Chances of Beating Hamed's Ass, WHY Didn't He Take the Opportunity that Fell In His Lap August 2000, Neil???...

August 2000 and the Decision JMM Made SHITS On the "Hamed Ducked Marquez" Talk...NATHAN To See Here Folks...

Explain WHY JMM Didn't Take That Particular Fight OR Shut the Fuck Up About Hamed "Ducking" Him Bruh...




REED

 

To echo REED, for all your disparaging of Hamed's resume, who in the living Hell had MARQUEZ beaten at the time? Not Naz, who btw has a pretty solid career resume, I'm talking who had JMM beaten at the time to earn the status of being so feared/avoided?

You're talking about a resume consisting of Steve Robinson, Boom Boom Johnson, Kevin Kelly, Ingle, Bungu, Wilfredo Vasquez, Manuel Medina versus a Marquez who had beaten N O B O D Y at the time.

I doubt Hamed was shivering in fear at a guy who at the time was a bum beater.

 

I do think Hamed was reluctant to face JMM. It was obvious he was talented (to what extent still needed to be determined though) and he wasn't bringing anything money wise (plus Hamed was a bit of a cherry picker to booth). But when Hamed was getting backed in a corner by HBO to face better opposition, JMM had a golden opportunity to jumpstart his career and make a name for himself. For whatever reason, probably because he overinflated his worth, he declined the fight, along with a million dollar payday (which would have been his highest by far at the time and was more than what he made vs Pac I, when he was far more established ).

Unless I'm missing something (and please, don't bring the garbage that he was entitled to 25% of the purse since he was the mandatory) it's pretty idiotic to claim Hamed ducked him shamelessly. I know it s an easy sell to make in hindsight since JMM stock and appeal has increase exponentially since then (while Hamed's went down pretty hard). And like all good story, there is even a hint of truth behind it. But the reality is JMM was a fucking nobody at the time. A nobody that stupidly declined a (relatively) generous offer to face one of boxing biggest star

 

Yeah, hamed resume is way underrated. Sure he never beat any elite A+ guys, but he defeated a lot of high leveks one

 

jmm ended up achieving much more than hamed ever did, and will always be more highly regarded, but i bet for a while there he was kicking himself for not facing hamed when he had the chance, whatever the terms he was offered might have been.

 

Agreed. If you have the opportunity to face one of the biggest stars around and also have the chance to take their 'O' you jump at it. Barrera was basically king of the world for a hot minute after beating Hamed. He was already very well respected obviously but that put him on another tier no other fight could have at the time. That could have been Marquez.

 

Back to the actual topic of the thread - so far we have people who think Marquez, Pac, and possibly Nelson in a rematch are the only guys who could beat Sanchez in the last 35 years.

I would agree that those seem like the three best candidates.

Sanchez was better than Barrera and Morales at damn near every facet of boxing, so it's hard to see them having a chance.

 

Marquez was pretty impressive here:

 

I don't think any of them beat Sal, nor do any of them have a good chance IMO.

It takes an rangy, elusive, smart, and tough out-boxer/boxer-puncher to beat Sanchez, and there hasn't been one of those at the highest level since Sal, and only two or three on film before him.

The only possible exceptions to the rule about Sanchez and pressure fighters, are Saddler and Armstrong, but even then I wouldn't favour Saddler - and I've always found you need to make exceptions for Henry Armstrong.

 

I would definitely count out Nelson in a rematch. Nelson wasn't THAT far from his prime when he fought Sal... he was essentially the same Nelson that beat Gomez.

Sal was just too good for him.

 

I would give Pacman the best chance. Yeah he was still pretty raw @ 126 but he was also a phenom. Manny wasn't the quite the unknown quantity that he was against Ledwaba and to a lesser extent against Barrera before he went up against JMM. Marquez is a master counter-puncher and was well aware of what he was up against. (or so he thought). He simply couldn't handle that onslaught of power, speed and angles. Three knockdown rule in effect or a ref who is a bit quicker on the trigger and the history books would have read Pacquiao KO 1 Marquez.

No, i'm not saying that happens to Sal and yes i know he was a superior fighter to JMM with a sturdier beard. The thing with timing though, well it takes time. Sanchez would work it out but he'd have his hands quite full and Manny would win his share of rounds.

 

I'm a huge JMM fan. Huge. Thought he was brilliant. Aye, he got beat up by Floyd but he was undersized by miles and never had a chance in that one. In his other fights against an ATG, he was brilliant. I think he gets far too little credit for being able to hang as well with Pac as he did. People treat him like he's Ken Norton. He's miles fucking better than him. His counterpunching was a thing of beauty, and he beat the shit out of a lot of B and A- fighters, alongside Pac.

And although Mister REED is right, and his defence was dreadful, he was an unbelievably durable man. He got knocked over more times than I can remember and I cannot recall him ever looking vaguely like he was going to get knocked out. His recuperative power were excellent. And they needed to be, because he was at home in the pocket, throwing and trading.

For a long time I bought into the 'Hamed ducked JMM' narrative. It sounds right and it's easy to believe with the benefit of hindsight. But it is false. I can't remember who it was - it may have been Azazel - but someone here called it out a year or two ago and made me look into it properly for the first time. And the proof is out there. JMM was offered the fight. He was offered a career high payday on the back of not very much up to that point. And he said no. He might have had his reasons. He wasn't offered a massive payday, based on what he was earning later. But he was offered the fight and a good cheque at that moment in time, and JMM said 'no'.

It's all in the public domain. JMM turned the fight down. That's the end of it.

MTF