Best boxer in the last 30 years.

It's hard for young fans to comprehend the aura around prime Roy. And no, this isn't directed at George, since he's a young historian, I'm directing it to the young fans who were brought into the sport by Floyd, and swear by Floyd. They get on my nerves, because they often to refer to Roy as: "That glass chinned bum you mean??"

The junior lightweight Floyd was a contemporary of Roy, and we all know that Floyd was thought of as a footnote at the time. He was seen as Roy-lite. Even Sly's bandwagon ass thought of Roy as better... until the Tarver rematch, then he acted like he never heard of Roy, but I digress..

Newer fans are shocked whenever tell them that the old guy who just had an exhibition with Tyson was once thought of as being on another level from Floyd. They don't believe me.

 

My final thoughts on this list as a whole is that it's not terrible, save for Canelo at 10. Also, Holy is greater than Tito and Oscar if his entire career is taken into account and not just the last 30 years.

I agree with the top 5, just not the order. But Floyd, Roy, Pac, Whitaker, and Hopkins are the 5 greatest fighters of the last 30 years, so at least they got that right.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a decline as steep and sudden as Roy Jones, the guy was basically untouchable for an entire decade and out of nowhere he was getting fucked up BRUTALLY, all the time. Not saying it should count against him but I don't think there's ever been a career trajectory like that ever. He was nearly dogshit for as long as he was unbeatable too.

 

It should only count against him if he was young. Like how Don Curry went from invincible to dog shit at 24.

Roy was 35 years old when he lost the Tarver rematch, and had been a champion for over 10 years. Leonard was shot to shit by 34, nevermind 35.

The writing was on the wall. I dunno how many of you remember, but there were deep discussions on here in the years PRE-Tarver talking about how much longer Roy had before he fell off a cliff. We knew he was an old man fighting using a young man's style. So the steep decline wasn't that shocking. The only thing shocking was the result of the rematch itself, because we thought he had a great chin.

 

I get what you're saying but it basically happened straight away after what was seen at the time as his greatest victory. The age thing is a factor for sure in retrospect, but even if there was a decline he was seen as such a phenom that it didn't seem that it would be enough for anyone to get on a level playing field with him. For him to start getting battered left, right and centre all of a sudden after barely losing a round for an entire decade was insane.

 

What I'm saying is most declines are gradual, guys not on the same level start to catch up and be competitive after a few years. Like Spinks against Ali and Maidana against Floyd etc, but it's usually a slow process. With Roy it came out of nowhere and he wasn't just losing close fights, he was getting fucked up badly, knocked unconscious and whitewashed.

 

What really killed Roy was the choice of opponent after the Tarver rematch - Johnson. At the time, we all thought Glenn Johnson was a total bum, but in retrospect he was the WRONG guy to fight coming off a comeback loss.

Looking back, Roy needed to return against a total softie to get his confidence back. Had he done that, would he have ever returned to the Roy of old? Hell no. He was simply getting too old to maintain his physical talent. But I think had scouting been better, a formidable guy like Johnson would have been avoided, and Roy could have built back some steam.

 

Tarver's mouth managed to change the entire legacy of a man.

Roy had ZERO intention of going back to 175. His initial plan was to land a Lewis/Holy/Tyson matchup.

He dropped back down just for the purpose of shutting Tarver up. Looking back, Tarver really mind fucked him. I think Tarver knew full well that the weight drop would affect Roy.

 

I kind of wonder that too, I mean the Tarver II loss was devastating but it could be written off to just being caught by a great shot he didn't see early on in a fight, shit happens. Saying that though I still thought he'd whup Johnson, who was decent but levels below Roy, if I remember correctly he was coming off of a loss to Clinton Woods too so there really didn't seem any danger, Roy feasted on guys like this.

 

Agreed. Tarver played the mental games to a tee, and Roy was spooked after the first fight.

 

I don't think Roy was spooked. Had he been spooked, he would have never given Tarver the rematch. There were a lot of his fans calling for him to walkaway after the first fight, and history would have been very kind to him if he did. You think history would have given a shit that Roy didn't give him a rematch? The narrative would have been that Jones went to heavyweight, killed himself to get back to 175, and STILL won his belts back.

It was Roy's pride that made him give Tarver the rematch, because he wanted to beat him comprehensively, and not just inch by him.

 

I'm not sure about that. Roy started the rematch as confidently as ever, and the first round looked like the dominance that everybody expected the first fight to be. The second round changed everything

 

Spooked was probably the wrong word to be fair, I do think Roy had doubt in his mind for maybe the first time though.

 

Exactly. So many have forgotten that Roy won the first round easily.

At no point before the KO do I think Roy was scared of Tarver. They grew up together, and Tarver basically saw Roy as an idol. He's since admitted (since they're friends now) that he looked up Jones.

 

He did, that is true. I do think there was an element of feeling out/setting traps on Tarver's part though, moreso than Roy being back to his dominant best, although he did win the round clearly. Tarver's little "respect" speech in the corner after the first showed he was still really confident (although to play devil's advocate on myself, it was only after one round).

 

Probably, but to his credit, he wanted to the erase the doubt. That pissed off the Roy haters at the time, because they painted Roy as a pussy. It's the ultimate irony that if Roy WAS a pussy, he'd have been remembered as a top 10 great. As I said, he had every right to retire after Tarver I. History would have forgotten that he didn't give Tarver a rematch.

 

How you seperate Mayweather and Jones' athleticism comes down to how define athleticism. Is it nothing but speed, reflexes, stamina and power? Most people when talking boxing do tend to stop there, but I'm being taught as an athlete, that flexibility, agility, explosiveness, speed, anaerobic and aerobic capacity, mobility, balance, coordination, stability and even focus/attitude. In terms of speed, power and explosiveness - it's Jones, all the way. I'm happy saying Floyd has advantages on agility, mobility and stability. Both were extremely well coordinated and flexible. Floyd has a clear edge in aerobic capacity, but a clear disadvantage in anaerobic capacity. Floyd's /focus/dedication was of a level which few have ever matched. You really have to give him his due there.

I just think it's important to point out that athleticism isn't just explosiveness. Floyd was a freakish athlete, and was not far behind Jones in that regard. It's certainly closer than the gap in skills and toughness.

 

Didn't Tarver beat Jones in the amateurs? I know they definitely fought, hence the rivalry, but to be fair Tarver's amateur win was mentioned on ITV2's shitty boxing show at the time so I've no idea how accurate that info was. They mentioned it after Tarver beat Harding in the rematch.

 

There would have been a question mark, in the same way there's something of a question mark over Lewis-Klitschko, but yes I agree his standing would be much higher.

 

The dream scenario for any Roy fan would have been the Lewis fight. It would have been the ultimate no-lose situation.

In the 99% chance that Roy gets KO'd, and it would have meant nothing against his legacy. He would be credited for even trying.

In the 1% that he does upset the aging Lewis, then yeah, I think history does remember him as above Robinson. Because pre-Tarver, we were ALREADY calling him top 10.

 

I've always thought Jones-Tarver I was a clear win. I had it 117-111 for Jones the first time, and 116-112 the second. Tarver refused to punch at centre ring, and the only success he has was while Jones took a rest against the ropes. Jones taking centre-ring and working his cross just baffled Tarver.

 

I totally agree Tarver wasn't going all out in the first round and probably was waiting for his chance, which came soon after. I also agree that his own confidence didn't shake at any point.

It is obvious Roy wasn't himself anymore either but early in the fight he fought as if he were

 

And just brushing over Floyd-Castillo, I always thought Mayweather barely won that as well. 114-112 both times I've scored it. I also don't think it's massively impacting on his standing - he was outweighed by 20lbs, injured and fighting the worst possible style for him.

 

I can't speak for all Roy fans, but I was saying as early as the Derrick Harmon fight that Roy was slipping. The Hall fight was his last vintage performance.

Harmon, Julio Gonzalez, ect., all those fights Roy looked "good", but you could see some discernible signs that he was falling off.

Watch Roy against Reggie Johnson, then against Harmon, and you can see signs of reflex decline.

I would argue that Roy had THE longest prime of any athlete freak. All the rest burnt out in their 20s. It's actually pretty fucking impressive that he maintained that level into his mid 30s. He did so because he's a clean liver - no smoking, no drinking, always a gym rat.

 

I had it close but clear, 115-113, something like that. Roy pulled the result out like a champ in the last few rounds. Like you I couldn't see a way you could score it for Tarver, he had it within grasp but didn't go for it.

 

At the time, whilst not actually scoring it, I felt Mayweather shaded it too. I watched it again when the first lockdown happened and actually had Castillo winning 114-112, which surprised me. That whole result hinges on how you score two of the rounds so I don't really have a problem with anyone who has it a draw or a close decision either way.

 

Those Tarver-Jones fights remain some of the deepest threads ever on the various forums.

It wasn't a super fight in the mainstream, but here and on Boxing Fanatics, Jones-Tarver I was one of the most highly anticipated fights of the decade. The build-up was crazy.

The rematch wasn't as hyped going in, because only like 2% of the forums thought Tarver could win.

 

Totally and completely random, but didn't Floyd-Castillo 1 happen the same night as Calzaghe-Brewer? My memory seems to recall being depressed as Hell because I was a HUUUGGGEE Floyd fan, and felt in my heart he lost, then flipping to Showtime to watch Calz-Brewer.

EDIT: Yup, I was right! Same night as Calzaghe-Brewer. My memory is better than I thought.

 

I won't sit here and lie by saying I picked Tarver to win, I didn't. In the vast majority of cases I find that when a dominant champion is given a much closer than expected fight, he wins the rematch clearly. Like I said in a previous post, I felt Tarver had missed his chance. I will say though that the close nature of the first fight kind of diluted the shock of the result in the second. It was still a shock of course, but it would have surpassed Tyson-Douglas for me possibly if Tarver had done that the first time round.

 

I doubt that you did, just based on Calzaghe vs Brewer being in the UK. But they were on the same night.