Best "recent" uk fighter

Forgot about Honeyghan.

Talentwise, he def deserves mention here.

 

Groves was definitely a puncher.

 

I'm not sure about that. We were calling him a farmer here when he was battling his way past Magee and other Euro level fighters.

After all this time I'm still not entirely sure how Froch was as good as he was. He punched hard, which helped, and he had a very good chin. He loved a battle, and only lost one to anyone who came to hit him and who he could hit (and I had the Kessler I fight a draw, but I have no problem with Kessler winning a tight one). He feared no-one. He had a good jab, when he bothered to use it. But none of that really explains why he was as good as he was.

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I think that the most important criteria is where did the guy learned to box. That's why i never considered tszyu autralian or bute canadian

I would say that taylor was Also a good, if not great puncher. He hurt pavlik pretty badly, and Pavlik had a really good chin. Hell, he pretty much hurted everyone he touched with his right hand

 

And quick with it. Power wasnt the thing that knocked Carl over. He couldn't deal with speed. It was punches he didn't see coming that hurt him. Taylor and Groves could both hit and were quick. The Dirrell debacle was a W for Froch but he looked like shit chasing that coward around. And Ward lit him up horribly in the middle rounds of their fight.

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He had a weird style for sure, but i never understood why people claimed he wasn't skilled. My first.time seeing him was against Pascal, and i tought he looked terrific. Great jab and great timing. He sure looked rudimentary against Dirrell, Taylor and Ward, but these guys were athletic freaks

 

AgREED. It's like I said above. Froch always looked great against people stood in front of him. Pascal, Kessler, Bute... If he could trade and wasn't chasing some slick speedster around, he looked a million dollars.

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I can't see any argument for Honeyghan being top 5 here. His top level career lasted about a year.

Top 10? Maybe. But not top 5 IMO.

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I think Froch has to be in the list if we are including resume and not just simply picking who is 'best'. He basically fought every top level fighter in his division at a time that the division was pretty stacked, and he beat all of them bar a truly elite level fighter.

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Wven top 10 is a stretch imo, and i loved honeybunny

 

Didn't mean top 5. I just meant he at least deserves a shut out.

He definitely isn't top 5.

 

I consider Honeyghan briefly, and concluded he wasn't worthy of mention.

Very thin résumé outside of the Curry win. Extremely fast downfall, too.

I'm not actually convinced he'd go 2-0 vs Jones and Laing.

 

Yep, Groves caught him right in the middle of an exchange. All Adam Booth's successful fighters seemed to be quick off the mark, dangerous early with quick and powerful straight rights. Once Froch started to time it and see it coming he wasn't really hurt badly again.

 

Promise not to take this off topic, but any tennis fans in here? If so, answer my question in Fracture Ward, please.

 

That also how i see it. I dont understand why most rate calz much higher than him. Winning fights is much more important than "style point" imo.

On another tangent, do you guys think hatton should be rated in the top 5? I never was a fan of him, but i think hes terribly underrated since the pac blowout

 

Hatton doesn't make my top 5, but if he's on someone's top 5 I'm not gonna be outraged or anything.

 

I don't see how Hatton is "underrated" though. People say that, but how is he?

He's pretty correctly rated. No one picks scrubs over him. He rightfully fits into the class of "very good" junior welterweights, but not the great junior welters like Pryor, Chavez, Cervantes, ect.

I would pick the mid 00s Hatton over Taylor and Prograis. Obviously, he would batter the shit outta Ramirez.

 

Good post. That sounds about right to me. But I've seen others claim Hatton loses to those guys. Which is wrong imo.

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I think Taylor beats Hatton.

But I don't think I'm the one the "Hatton is underrated" line is aimed at.

 

I just see hatton having a field day with taylor elongated body

 

I don't think Hatton has a field day with any southpaw.

 

Hatton doesn't come near the top 5 for me, but I'll be the first to say I am massively biased on the Hatton front, I just wasn't a fan.

I think Taylor is a better fighter, but stylistically I'll admit he has big problems with Hatton.

 

Thats a good point. He did looked shitty against pac and Calzone. Though, to be honest, he looked pretty good against collazo before fading in the late rounds

 

I don't. I think Hatton beats him, even though I agree that he had problems with lefties.

I think prime Hatton outlasts Taylor in a war.

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As far as I'm an appreciator of Hatton as a fighter, he had weaknesses which seem to absolutely play into Taylor's hands. He was a straight up and down fighter, who didn't use angles. He was terrible vs southpaws, and his natural rhythm wasn't hard to read. As he came in, he bobbed without punching, then punched as he bobbed. Mayweather had that figured out in no more than three rounds, and Pacquiao had obviously spent his entire camp training for it. Taylor would time him on the way in, I'm sure.

What Hatton would trouble Taylor with, is his speed and workrate. He wouldn't be meekly sauntering into range like Ramirez, he was intense and energetic. He'd be coming in, whipping that hook and he'd be on top of Taylor upclose. And they would get upclose, since Taylor doesn't revert out of range, and tends to "fall in" with his counters. I think Taylor's uppercuts would be tremendously successful, but Hatton's hooks are what will dominate these exchanges.

The problem here, is that Hatton always had issues getting into that favourable position vs a southpaw, and Taylor was plenty good enough to make Hatton even more frustrated. I think Taylor does enough outside of range, and as Hatton comes in, to take rounds where Hatton can't inflict his wicked inside violence. Furthermore, Taylor handled Ramirez pretty easily, and that's the closest match-up stylistically to the other that either faced.

 

George is making good points, good enough points that I'm re-assessing the matchup. However, I can't erase from my mind the trouble Ramirez and Baranchyk gave Josh in spots with their pressure. Yes, both of them dropped convincing decisions, Baranchyk more-so, but they had pockets of success and neither one is a particularly elite fighter.

I feel like Josh would struggle given the speed at which Ricky could close the distance.

Still, I will say that out of the truly elite junior welters of the last 25 years, Hatton would be the one that Taylor has the best chance of beating. I can't see Taylor beating Tszyu at all. I think prime Kostya would kick the shit outta him. Taylor could possibly beat Bradley, but I see prime Tim being too much. He wouldn't beat the junior welter Crawford. And then, it's not even really worth discussing Taylor's chances against the 140 Floyd and Pac, because it's obvious his chances are zero.

 

There is some sensible analysis here but I think you are underestimating how quick prime Ricky was, especially in his footspeed. It was his footspeed that generally allowed him to get inside and really work to the body, which he loved to do. Yes Mayweather figured him out and was able to time him, and yes Manny was able to make an old version of Ricky look dreadful, but you are talking about two of the best fighters of all time and two of the fastest at all time with it. They were faster than Ricky. I simply don't believe that Taylor is. That's the key factor in this one for me. Similar considerations apply to your Ramirez comparison. Yes Taylor handled him well, but Hatton would have beaten the shit out of Ramirez, too. He is a good two levels above him IMO, at least.

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Bingo.

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Conteh murders Froch.

Calzaghe is a much closer affair.

The one guy none of youse is gonna mention is Chris Finnegan.

 

Ahem...

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