Ever notice that Chavez-Taylor...

Is a poor man's Leonard-Duran 1? Granted, Chavez-Taylor was more dramatic, im talking purely styles.

Taylor, a less talented Leonard, and Chavez, a less talented Duran.

 

Yes, there's some similarities

 

i don't see it. srl was not winning rounds the way taylor was.

 

I never compared the way the fights played out. Simply comparing the fact that Taylor was a lesser SRL and a Chavez was a lesser Duran.

The one other thing that both fights have in common is that they were fought at at fast pace, and a RIDICULOUSLY high skill level.

 

It is worth pointing out that for a pressure fighter, Chavez did not get hit a lot, relatively speaking. In that regard he was similar to Duran in he had an underappreciated and rarely noticed defensive repertoire.
I'm pretty sure nobody ever identified his D as a key to victory vs Taylor.
Additionally...turning D into O into D over and over....Chavez busted up Taylor and he didnt do it by sacrificing his own face.

Stylistically, you'd think Chavez and Duran would have suffered far more damage on account of their styles.

 

I and many others often point out Chavez's excellent defense.

He wasn't AS defensively good as Duran, but its not for a lack of skill. Its simply because Duran was more physically talented... well ok, Duran was also more skilled.

 

Never thought it that way. IMO, Chavez vs Taylor is the best fight in the history, right above Pryor vs Arguello

 

Once again, as I told Doub, I'm not comparing the outcomes or how the fights played out.

BUT there are similarities.

1. Duran and Chavez, respectively, both came in considered the P4P #1. Both had recently moved up from lightweight.

2. Leonard and Taylor, respectively, came in considered Golden Boys. Both were Olympic gold medalists and both had recently won the welter and junior titles in dominant fashion over HOFmers (Benitez and McGirt).

3. In both fights, the speedy, black Golden Boys go toe-to-toe with the Latin greats, assuming that their size and speed edge will be too much. In both cases, this approach fails.

So, there are correlations.

 

I would add that in both cases, there was roughly a 5-year age difference.

I believe that Taylor was around 22 coming in, and Chavez was around 27, I think. He was either 27-28, I forget.

Leonard was around 24, and Duran was around 29.

 

i can see the parallels but "poor man's" to describe chavez vs. taylor seems like a misuse of the term.

 

Yeah, it might have been a bit harsh. I could have described it differently.

But Leonard was a better Taylor, and Duran was a better Chavez.

Though obviously, the gap between Leonard and Taylor is much, much, much bigger than the gap between Duran and Chavez.

 

Ugo is right by the way. Chavez-Taylor has a good argument as the GOAT fight. Duran-Leonard 1 I think gets undersold as a fight, but it was more of a great individual performance than a great fight.

 

Chavez-Taylor was a great fight but GOAT fight? Most memorable finish, for sure. And round 10 was awesome too. But I can't see it in the argument as the best fight of all time myself. Hell of a fight, though.

 

I rank Duran-Leonard 1 above Chavez-Taylor. I think it was a great fight and a great performance.

 

I'm rewatching Chavez-Taylor for the first time in probably like 12 years. Within the first 5 minutes Lampley says this fight is being compared to Duran-Leonard 1.

 

Duran Leonatd was significantly better imo, though of course it didn't have the crazy ending

 

Both fights were fought on a remarkably high talent and skill level skill, at a fast pace. I don't have much issue in someone preferring Duran-Leonard, simply because it was fought at a similar action level between better fighters.

 

Don't get me wrong, Taylor- Chavez was an exceptionnal fight, in fact, it might have been better if you watched both live. But watching both on replay, I enjoyed more Leonard Duran mainly because I find Taylor style not to be really pleasing, especially compared to the smoothness of Ray Leonard.

 

There are some similarities.

Some thoughts about the fight:

JCC was landing the harder shots throughout the fight (not just the last couple rounds), but he was getting outlanded. I remember that annoying Ferdie Pacheco claiming “Pernell Whitaker is fighting just like Meldrick Taylor” 3 and a half years later, but this wasn’t true. Taylor wasn’t winning through the use of unusual angles, movement, and an ATG defense. He was largely winning thru an insane workrate. Taylor was throwing an incredible amount of punches.

Chavez had a very good 2nd round, punctuated late by that right hand counter and a short left hook. I think it was this round when he re-opened a cut inside Taylor’s mouth. As a kid, I used to suffer from canker sores and whine as a result. My dad told me to toughen up and said to me when they showed Taylor’s corner between rounds “look at all the cuts inside his mouth, think of how much pain he’s in”. Taylor was said to have swallowed 2 pints of blood in this match.

Taylor came strong from that 2nd round to win the great majority of the first 9 or so rounds. He was a good bodypuncher and landed a lot of left hooks to Chavez’s hips, and other shots below.

The 10th round is a classic round.

HBO was seriously biased in favor of Taylor. Lampley at one point claimed Chavez was on the verge of getting dropped, but he didn’t look hurt at all.

I still think Taylor was distracted by Lou Duva going on the ringpost when Steele was asking him questions. I don’t know how he would have reacted if not for Duva, but it definitely didn’t help.

I don’t think Taylor’s career would have been really that much different if not for this fight. He was bound to be a shooting star due to his style, his apparent weight problems at 140, and the talent level at 147. This sped things up though. He looked good a year later in beating Aaron Davis, a year after that he looked like a sad shell of himself.

This was only a month after Douglas-Tyson. The decade got off to a hell of a start. The greatest upset in boxing history, followed by a classic fight with one of the most dramatic and controversial endings the sport has ever seen.

 

there was actually a lot of holding in srl/duran i. one thing about chavez/taylor i is it was perpetual back and forth....not a bunch of fits and starts.

 

I disagree. Mel was a joy to watch, even though he wasn't in Leonard's league.

 

Watching Chavez-Taylor the thing that's MOST apparent is that they'll never be another network or streaming service that ever comes within 10 light years of HBO.

 

Great post.

Yeah, Chavez fight or no Chavez fight, Mel Taylor was never gonna be a Leonard or Jones. He just didn't have the tools and the firepower, nor the brain.

However, without Chavez, he rules 140 for as long as he can make the weight - which probably aint long. Or actually, i take that back. He rules 140 until Pea steps in weight. I dunno how that fight would have worked though, being that Duva trained both.

Mel could have had a successful run through the early 90s, but would have eventually been screwed by circa 93 when Trinidad emerged on the scene.

 

The other thing that jumps out is how fucking AWESOME a fight 1990 Chavez vs 1980 Pryor would have been.

 

So, I rewatched both tonight, back to back. Its only fair, as its been quite a number of years since I rewatched either.

Yes, I side with Jel and Azazel. Short of the dramatic finish, Duran-Leonard was the better fight. It was a much better fight than I remembered, whereas Chavez-Taylor wasn't quite as epic as I had remembered when I was younger.

I think the finish has greatly influenced the narrative around Chavez-Taylor. You guys might wanna rewatch it. It wasn't as great as I remembered, though still great.

Duran-Leonard 1 was a VICIOUS fight, moreso than I remembered. Chavez-Taylor wasn't as violent, and wasn't as back n forth. Mel had basically dominated all but two rounds going into the 12th.

 

It terms of exchanges, it wasn't even close. Duran-Leonard had far superior exchanges, and beautiful countering from both.

 

Mannnnn after rewatching this, all i can think is Montreal Duran would beat the ever living fucking shit outta Crawford and Spence.

 

I maintain my take that Chavez vs Taylor was the better fight, and the GOAT.

Both Duran vs Leonard and Chavez vs Taylor had great pace, and also great skill included. Leonard and Duran were better fighters,but Taylor and Chsvez were definitely good enough to make a great fight (slapfests such as Gatti vs Ward lack this dimension).

What Duran vs Leonard lacked were strategies, and changes in the flow.

Taylor was usually a well-moving fighter but here he realized he couldn't run from Chavez and that he couldn't keep him off. Thus, Taylor decided to go toe to toe. Perfect strategy, and he nearly pulled it off too. It was a classic case of Meldrick winning all the battles, Chavez winning the war.

As for Leonard vs Duran, it was clear that Ray didn't fight like Ray. He willingly went with Duran's humping and clutching. Granted, it was a masterful mental ploy by Duran to trick Ray to such fight, but Leonard obviously wasn't at his best. Inside fighting wasn't his best game.

As for the story of the fight, even though there were colorful exchanges in Duran vs Leonard, the big picture remained the same all night. Duran had a narrow edge early on, and he retained it all night. At no point did Ray take over, nor tried anything drastically different. With Taylor vs Chavez the element of racing against the clock was always there.

 

Humping and clutching? LOL. As usual, you give no Duran credit.

Honestly, when's the last time you saw Leonard-Duran 1? Duran was not only tearing Leonard up inside, there were numerous times he masterfully countered him from a distance. It was truly the best aggressive countering performance ever put on by a pressure fighter.

I too considered Chavez-Taylor near GOAT status, because I had fond memories of it from years ago. It was still a great fight, don't get me wrong, but I wasn't blown away by it like years past. It was a bit too one sided to be considered the GOAT fight.

There was the "element of the clock" in play. At no point until the last minute of the 12th did it become apparent that Mel might get stopped.

I thought before last night that the two were on par, but they aren't. Put it this way, without that 12th round stoppage, Mel wins either 10-2 or 9-3.

Is a 9-3 fight the GOAT candidate?

No, it's not. The 12th round really built the narrative of its GOAT status.

 

Its true that there was a.lot.of humping and.clutching from duran. Which, of course doesnt negate all the other brilliant stuff he did. Really close fight that could have gone either way imo,.though duran definitely had the clearer round and won the story of the fight as Kellerman would say