Liston's destruction of Cleveland Williams = Underrated

Ali always gets so much praise for his destruction of an older Williams. Why is Liston never credited for destroying a prime Williams? The first Liston-Williams fight is Sonny at his true peak.

Liston's skill and defense were both underrated, and he finishes Big Cat with one of the best short hooks I've ever seen. Other than Louis, I've never seen another heavyweight land the type of short hook that Sonny iced Williams with:

 

Yeah, Liston's reputation is usually that of a bully. I guess if you go by the contrast of the Patterson vs Ali fights it's understandable but he had excellent skill.

 

I think he's finally starting to get more credit in recent times. The recent documentary made on him helped, and even casuals I've spoken to now have more a working knowledge.

He was misunderstood as both a fighter, and a human being.

 

There's many people who believe that prime Foreman would be kryptonite to prime Tyson, but in recent years I've changed my opinion on these matchups.

I see prime Liston being more dangerous to 88 Tyson than prime Foreman. Sonny was a lot more defensively responsible, and didn't gas out like young George did.

The way Liston totally dismantled the peek-a-boo style would worry me if Tyson fought him. Yes, I know Mike was a lot bigger, and more powerful than Patterson - Mike also had a much better chin than Patterson - but Sonny just handled the peek-a-boo so easily that it does give him favorable odds against Tyson imo.

George I would give better odds of beating Lewis than I would give Liston, but Liston seems to matchup better against Tyson, at least to me.

 

Wlad vs Shufford was similar.

Williams fought stupidly IMHO.

Standing close in, winging lots of shots that a guy like Liston, with long arms, could block a lot of, especially downstairs.

He really could have made those fights a lot easier for himself and instead fought the other guys fight while wearing himself out.

 

Being perfectly candid here, a big doleful black from the countryside that had absolutely no fear of Mike the Midget would get into Mikes head a lot faster than anything Liston could do with his fists.

1930's Arkansas > 1970's Brooklyn.

Liston might end it with his hands. He'd start it with his face.

Liston had literally and historically had a far worse existence than Mike, like the story about when his fathers donkey died and Listons father told him "Now you the donkey".

Liston would have zero physical or mental fear of Mike.

 

Im not so sure Liston came from a harder background than tyson. Mike childhood was a veritable hellhole

 

Black as the ace of spades in Country Arkansas in the 1930's?

Liston had guns put to his head by cracker cops when he was an adult, never mind as a child.

Liston literally got driven to the edge of town and told to git on.

 

Liston was so slow man

 

How Mike Tyson Became Mike Tyson -- New York Magazine - Nymag

Both came from absolute shithole. I don't think we can say that one had it harder than the other

 

Liston jab was really something. Only hearing the.thudding sound of it hurts

 

Liston definitely had to deal with far more danger from a racial point of view, although, the NYPD is notoriously trigger happy, and they still were in the 70s. If anything, the NYPD was probably MORE brutal in the 70s because they weren't being recorded, and the media wasn't covering it.

Living in Brownsville, you face more in terms of the daily dangers of violent crime, specifically handgun crime, than you do in rural Arkansas.

I dont see the point in making it a competition. Liston and Mike had the two shittiest upbringings of the heavyweight champs.

 

There's been faster jabs in history. But Liston had the heaviest jab of all time, and its not even close.

Liston had HUGE, HUGE hands. Freakishly big hands. Thats where a lot of the power came from imo.

 

Well, two of the bottom three. Jack Johnson's was horrifying as well.

 

I agree btw that Liston wouldn't be intimidated by Mike, but I'm not in the camp who believes that necessarily matters. Whether you fear Mike or not, you still have to deal with the power and handspeed.

Could Liston deal with it? Possibly. I think there's a case to be made for either winning.

 

No competition, merely pointing out that Liston would be utterly utterly unafraid of Mike.

He knew mobsters, cops, rural poverty, I mean real grinding poverty.

I once read a story about two brothers who owned one pair of pants.

When one of them was going out, he'd wear the pants and the other would stay home, nekkid.

 

I think a lot of guys had the wherewithal to deal with Mike but got intimidated.

That guy from the '84 Olympics was one of them.

 

Foreman is up there as far as rough upbringings go.

The projects of Houston are no joke.

 

Dempsey's upbringing is as bad as any.

 

I'm glad that Liston is no longer vilified.

He was a hard man who was involved with crooked people, but I think he was a good man.

His wife and his kids adored him. He was supposedly extremely loving and gentle as both a husband and father.

 

According to a journalist, Liston was seen visiting a children's hospital, bringing toys to the children and keeping them company. He never made it public

 

Pfft. Guy never game me anything. Screw him.

 

Liston was harmless. He was a threat to nobody. He was murdered by mobbed up people.

 

The Black Hat/Bad Guy Role CHOSE Liston, He Didn't Choose It...

To Make Money, He Had to Act and Do MENACING Deeds, But as You've Noted, That Wasn't @ the CORE of Sonny Liston...

He was Apparently Looking FORWARD to Being Embraced and Distancing Himself from the BADASS Facade, After Beating Patterson for the Title...EVERYBODY Loooooooves the Heavyweight Champion of the World, Right???...Shaking Hands, Kissing Babies, Endorsements, etc...

Liston Expected Fan Fare and a Welcome Home Celebration, But When His Flight Landed, He Received Very Little Attention @ All, In Actuality...Per His Wife, This DEVASTATED Liston and Pushed Him Even Fuuuuuurther to the Dark Side...







REED

 

Liston also visited in Finland when he was the champion in 1963. There was no suitable opponents for him here, even for an exhibition, so instead he skipped the rope in an amusement park. A huge crowd gathered to see it. Back then, the heavyweight champion of the world was a superhero

In the airport he gave a short interview to a Finnish radio broadcaster. In there, you can here him being in light-hearted good mood with his wife and manager.

In the interview he said that his best opponent so far had been Cleveland Williams. The journalist then gave him a tip that he should try to get into a restaurant without a tie because it would lead to a good fight (it was forbidden back then in Finland). The journalist added that he also would like to see the doorman who would try to throw Sonny out.

Liston laughed it off in good humor and added that he hadn't come to fight but to have a good time. He also behaved like a total gentleman throughout the trip.

 

What was the purpose of the visit?

 

was williams any good? i mean, who did he ever beat. why should liston's over him, or ali's for that matter, get more praise than they do?

 

Him have cars

 

Think of him as a worse Jesus Pimental and you'll do fine.

 

Willie Pep used to tell people that he'd "hate if Cleveland ever hung his hammer on me".