{{{NBA}}} 2021 - 2022 season OFFICIAL THREAD

Excellent scorer though. Developed a good 3 point shot and was always a threat with his athleticism. No way of telling but he could have at least equaled McGrady in my estimation.

 

Carter was a little more athletic than McGrady but didn't have the same ability off the dribble. Bryant was less talented than either but had a better work ethic when it mattered and more killer instinct

 

There was nothing wrong with Vince's handles. Kobe and Mac did have better handles.

Carter 00-01 had one of the quickest first steps ever though. Among two guards, i would say that only Jordan, Iverson, and Wade had quicker first steps than Vince.

 

Yup. This i agree with.

Kobe was the least talented of the three. He became better through his insane drive to wanna be like Mike.

 

Kobe was actually less talented than Drexler too. Prime Clyde was quicker and more athletic than Kobe - he just never developed Kobe's skill level. He also didn't have Kobe's killer instinct/meanness. He was a beautiful passer though, which people forget. Drexler had the court vision of a PG.

 

In 2000, yes. Shaq had arguably the best individual season in history in 2000. For that one year, Shaq was essentially better than Jordan and Kareem. You could replace Kobe with a number of quality two guards, and they still win in 00.

In 01 though, they needed Kobe. If you replace Kobe with Pierce in 01, there's a 95% chance that the Spurs are NBA champions that year.

Kobe's performance in 01 WCF was absurd. Paul Pierce could never in his fat ass life play like that.

Without KG and Ray, and Paul Piece would be remembered on the same tier as Melo. Those two are comparable. Pierce was a better playmaker and defender than Melo, so you could make an argument that he was slightly better. Pierce also had better handles. But Melo was a better rebounder, and a more explosive scorer. They're basically dead even.

 

2001 the lakers (with bryant) needed help from officiating to defeat excremento. I dont see a big difference between bryant and pierce. they had different games but both were effective. pierce could score at the rim, mid range and was a better 3 point shooter than bryant. i think his game would have fit better with oneals.

 

Ohhh cmonnn! I know that you and Ib4Ib don't like Kobe, but this is ridiculous. Don't pretend like there's not a difference.

Kobe was a different level basketball player than Piece. Full stop! There's no need to compare their games. They were not the same level, and it's not close.

Do some people overrate Kobe? Fuck yes! He wasn't anywhere near as good as Jordan, if we're being honest. But when he's argued against Paul Pierce, it's just ridiculous.

I have zero issue when people argue for Wade being better than Kobe - there's a decent argument that Wade peaked higher. But Paul Pierce was not in that class.

NO ONE on Earth considered Paul Pierce to be on Kobe's level until the Celtics got KG and Ray Ray. The narrative on Paul Pierce changed once he got a ring. He was not a great player. He was a very good.

 

i just think as dominant as oneal was at time there are multiple guys who you could plug in and they win chips. no one was talkin about pierce in the early 2000s cuz he was on shitty celtic teams. lets not pretend bryant had any success when oneal left. they were a bottom seed losing in the first round at best until bynum and gasol showed up. at one point there was talk here of bryant forcing a trade and many laker fans i know considered pierce an acceptable piece if they had to deal him.

 

In 2006, Kobe took perhaps the worst supporting cast in league history to the playoffs and they damn near upset the Suns.

That Lakers team doesn't even make the POs with Pierce.

That Lakers dynasty is not as good with Pierce - it likely isn't even a dynasty.

I've never heard you give Bryant credit... for anything.

This should not even be a discussion. At no point could a team replace Kobe with Pierce and be better off.

Pierce was quite simply a LESS impactful player.

There are probably 15-20 perimeter players in history better than Pierce.

There aren't 10 better than Kobe. Only a precious handful.

 

most ppl over rate bryant. the guy is not one of the 10 or 15 best basketball players Ive seen play. as far as overall impact on the game. alot of people consider him top 5. i dont see it. almost winning a first round series doesnt impress me. he almost lost to portland and sacramento in the conference finals, and almost surely loses to boston in game 7 if perkins plays. leaving him with 1 chip.

 

Well it's not the worst take ever. I just watched a vid where a guy argued Isaiah Thomas as the best player of all time and said LBJ isn't in the top 75 of all time. I'm no LBJ fan but that's lunacy.

 

i think isiah thomas wins chips with oneal and that lakers team

 

Yeah but those were kids who didn’t watch the games and basically only have numbers to back their arguments. I’m going strictly off the eye test.

You’re assuming I don’t like Kobe, the same way I’m assuming you don’t like Pierce. I like both guys I just think Kobe tried too hard to be like Mike and it effected his personal numbers as well as his teams ability to win games. If Kobe had taken the time to find his own game he would have been a much greater player. Kobe was a phenomenal passer and super intelligent reader of the flow of a game. Instead of using that knowledge letting the game come to him and controlling the pace to an extent he too often forced his offense jacking up shots and ignoring teammates. We’re talking about the guy who became the avatar of the term “hero ball” and it was all due to his attempt to become and try to surpass MJ.

I think you’re seriously underrating Pierce. He didn’t have the explosiveness and athleticism of many of his peers but he still got by guys and put up great stats. He was way more consistent and reliable than Carter and was much more durable than Carter and McGrady. Pierce was not a slouch offensively and Shaq didn’t give him the nick name of tha mutha fucking “Truth” for nothing.

So I’m not putting guys over Kobe in a vacuum I’m basing it on Bryant’s unreliability to play smart basketball.

 

T-Mac Never Won a Playoff Series, if REED Isn't Mistaken...And if He Did, It was Well PAST T-Mac's Prime...

Phenomenal Player Though and agREED He was More Deserving of Top 75 Inclusion Than 'Melo...






REED

 

Pierce On Par w/Kobe???...

Kobe's THE 2nd Best 2-Guard That Ever Lived...Is Pierce Even a Top 10 SF???...After Shaq was Traded to Miami, There was a 3-5 Year Stretch Where Kobe was THE Best Player in the Entire League...

Pierce Has NEVER Been Considered as Such...

Y'all are Trippin'...



REED

 

The Kobe hate is strong AF with Neil and Lb4lb. Like I said, if someone wanted to make a case for prime Wade being better than Kobe, ok, I think that's a legit opinion to have.

Paul Pierce was not on that level. Pierce was the same damn level as Melo. Matter fact, Melo in 2013-2014 peaked higher than any single Pierce season.

Kobe has seasons that are outside of his top 3 seasons, and are better than ANY Pierce season.

 

Now that I think about, both Kobe and Pierce peaked the same year - 2006. That was the best individual season for both of them.

Piece wasn't even considered the same level as AI and Arenas in 06, let alone fuckin Kobe. He wasn't a top 10 player that year. Kobe was the undisputed best player in the league that year.

That tells you everything you need to know. This debate is ridiculous.

 

You're not mistaken. It's the biggest knock on his career but he never really had much in the way of a supporting cast, especially in his Orlando days which was probably his peak. AD and Melo in ahead of him and D12? No. I'm not sold on Lillard being in there either especially over those two and Carter.

 

Mac got fucked when Hill got hurt.

Mac + Hill is without question the greatest "what if" duo in the NBA.

That duo would have won the east. I dunno if they get past LA, but they at least win the east.

 

REED Doesn't Get AD's Inclusion @ All, Especially Considering He was @ an All Time LOW Point of His Career When the Voting Took Place...

Dame was a Bit of a Surprise as Well...





REED

 

These newer fans probably think that Dame is the best guard Portland ever had. If you tell em it's Drexler, they would say "Who?"

 

Dame is impressive but I honestly think he shouldn't be there at least not YET. AD has no business at all being there. Did nothing with NO. Melo too, no reason to be put in there.

 

Outside of LeBron, theres only two other legit all time greats in the past 10 years... Steph and KD. They belong. Well, Giannis will certainly be an ATG when he's done, but its too soon.

I hope that Softden and Westbrick didn't make the list. Did they?

 

Both in. Kawhi too but I'm ok with him.

 

Jason Kidd and Mark Jackson have a lot in common. Both were top notch assisting style point guards. In the organizations they were head coaches for both guys had terrible reputations behind the scenes and weren’t much to write home about on the court.

Here’s the difference: Jason Kidd despite maybe having a worse reputation behind the scenes and having shown a propensity of stubbornness on the court as a head coach has still had two extra opportunities as a head coach and one as an assistant on a championship team. Mark Jackson on the other hand continues to ply his trade strictly as a commentator.

NBA racist moment? Obviously Mark Jackson isn’t light skinned enough. I mean he’s light skinned but he ain’t Jason Kidd light skinned.


All kidding aside, the Kidd hire is probably Cuban giving Kidd an opportunity as a show of thanks for the championship Kidd was instrumental in bringing to Dallas. My guess is after one full season of more coaching mediocrity and stubbornness, Kidd will be fired after Dallas has a terrible underachieving season. Also from what I’ve been reading and hearing about the culture in the Mavs organization this is the worst (or perfect) place Kidd could have come to, as he should fit right in.

 

Mark Jackson used to do the 'Jackson Jiggle' on the court. Couldn't stand him ever since. He did it once in a losing game and Larry Bird screamed at him. Always liked Bird.

 

Kidd was a franchise player who dragged a shitty Nets team to consecutive finals.

Action Jackson, being from my hometown aside, was no franchise player.

 

As Looooooong as Kidd has the Ear of Luka Doncic, Which He Does, he'll Be FINE In Dallas Until Fuuuuuurther Notice...For What it's Worth, it was Kidd that Made Giannis Milwaukee's Primary Ballhandler and Giannis' Career Took Off from There...

Giannis Thinks Highly of Kidd to this Very Day, as Well...

You're Spot On About the Mavs "Culture" Though...It All Came to a Head When Cuban Empowered His Coke Snorting, Compulsive Gambling Buddy, Bob Voulgaris, to Be "Director of Quantitative Research and Player Development", Whatever the Fuck THAT Means...

Voulgaris had PISS POOR People Skills, Couldn't Be Bothered to Improve In That Area and Turned Off Rick Carlisle (a Certified ASSHOLE In His Own Right), GM - Donnie Nelson and Luka Himself...Carlisle and Nelson Eventually QUIT But the Fact Is, Both Had Their Positions for Toooooooooooo Loooooooooooong...

Carlisle ISN'T a Good Fit w/Today's NBA Personalities and Nelson Can't Be Bothered to Scout Anyone That isn't European...Granted, Nelson Drafted Dirk, Luka and Recommended Giannis, But 3 Elite Guys in 23 Years AIN'T a Good Average...

Luckily, Voulgaris Resigned As Well, So It's Pretty Much a CLEAN Slate for Kidd...The Belief is Kidd Will Make Dallas a More Attractive Option for Free Agents Than it's Been Historically...

We Shall See...





REED

 

What do you think when Steph Curry does the little wiggle thing?