Greater fighter Trinidad or Canelo?

Well that's the thing, as I said it was a proper knockout and I wouldn't argue that for a second. Just saying that Kovalev fought really strange throughout the fight and didn't let his hands go. The point about the scorecards was just to emphasise how fishy the whole fight was, even though the ending was obviously conclusive.

 

He actually said this in response to a thread where he was being engaged by three British posters.

MTF

 

To answer the question, Canelo on his current trajectory will likely go down as greater.

Trinidad, for me at least, was better.

 

You put a disclaimer that you don't hold it against Canelo for fighting what's in front of him(a weaker division at 168) but you proceed to hold it against him for not fighting Roy, Calzaghe ect. It's a pretty shitty take. Canelo can't choose when he was born. This is similar to me saying all these guys you're naming avoided Canelo at his best by being born earlier. Shitty division or not if he didn't fight Smith, Saunders and Plant he'd be accused of avoiding them. You can flip the narrative any way you want in boxing. See that's how it works. And as far as him cherry picking old Kovalev and now Makabu why doesn't everyone else Cherry pick in higher divisions since it's so easy?

 

I don't hold it against him. He can't be responsible for not fighting guys who retired years ago. But, when assessing the careers of fighters, the quality of their opposition is an extremely important factor to take into account.

Canelo has fought one ATG in his entire career. He lost, handsomely. He's fought several elite level fighters but each one has an asterix over them. Mosley was 40 when Canelo fought him. Cotto was 34. In most people's opinion, he lost at least one of his fights with GGG, who was 35 when Canelo fought him. His win over Kovalev is subject to my earlier comments. Kovalev was 36 at the time of that fight.

Old guys. All of Canelo's best wins are old guys. He's never actually beaten a single elite, prime fighter. His record looks great but it's actually much thinner when you scratch below the surface. Hence my belief that he has become very overrated.

MTF

 

Yeah youre right he's become overrated , he’s just your average 4 weight World champ, undisputed Super Middle weight champ, pound for pound number 1 and biggest name in the sport that's all .

Btw age is not always the best measuring stick of a fighter’s prime. You mention Cotto's age (34 )but he was a revived fighter under Freddie Roach and had beaten Martinez the linear Champ at the time and other decent MW before facing Canelo. I mean with your logic if you're not going to give credit for victories over "old guys" then what's the point of Errol Spence Jr.(31 same age as Canelo) fighting Terrance Crawford who will be 35 by the time they fight. You'll just say Errol beat an old Crawford. Errol That cherry picking cunt lmao.

 

Big cotto fan, but Martinez was pretty much done when he faced cotto. Struggled in all of his previous fights, and his knee was done

 

You can keep saying these things but it doesn't change the basic proposition that being the undisputed champion of a weak division is not as impressive as being the undisputed champion of a good division. Canelo deserves credit for taking out the trash as well as he has done, but beating garbage like Plant and BJS does not carry as much weight as, for example, Ward beating Froch and Kessler. It just doesn't.

And I've already covered his middleweight 'reign', but to reiterate - he fought one elite level 160lb fighter (albeit one aged 35) and almost everyone with a working pair of eyes thought he lost at least one of those fights. Many people, me included, thought he lost both. And at bigging up Cotto as some kind of beast at 160. I'm a big Cotto fan, but he surprised a very faded Martinez to win the lineal championship (Martinez practically retired immediately afterwards), then he beat Daniel Geale then he lost to Canelo. Is Geale the 'decent mw' you referred to? Cotto practically retired straight afterwards, coming back two years later for a couple of paydays.

You're reaching to defend Canelo. Reaching badly.

MTF

 

And 'being the biggest name in the sport' doesn't automatically mean you are the best fighter. If Canelo is the biggest name in boxing, the second is almost certainly Anthony Joshua. And he's not even the best heavyweight in the UK.

MTF

 

Again anyone can pick apart the resume of literally any fighter in history.....

RJJ is 1-2 against B-Hop and Tarver, got iced by journeyman Glen Johnson, beat Toney because of his weight issues, Hill when he was Hearns’s and Michalczewski’s leftovers, then 80 yrs old McCallum and Trinidad before defeating the worst HW beltholder ever. Oh, and he got slapped around by Calzaghe.

See how easy that is?

We can just agree to disagree.

 

How Many Catchweight/Rehydration Clause/Day of Weigh-In Fights did Roy Have???

REED “Musta 4-Got”…





REED

 

Roy's wins over Toney and Hopkins, two ATGs, literally piss all over every single win Canelo holds. If Hopkins was still fighting at 160-175, I can say with absolute confidence that Canelo would be nowhere near the place. Another win, over Tarver, is better then anything Canelo has done. Hell, I would rate Clinton Woods over everyone Canelo has beaten at 168.

MTF

 

You have an obsession with Roy Jones Jr. Lol at referencing the Calzaghe fight as black mark against his name. Roy was beyond shot when that fight took place.

MTF

 

I haven't seen such a disturbing obsession with wanting to discredit Roy in every thread and post since Valentino on BoxFanatics in the early 00s.

 

I have always said Roy is an atg. Probably the best fighter of his generation. But for as much shit as Canelo gets for being a steroid cheat he never actually tested positive for an actual steroid. Clembuterol is not a PED. He was also exonerated by a hair follicle test. Now pay attention cause this is important. Back in 2000 after the Richard Hall fight both Roy and Richard tested positive for steroids. And ever since that fight he was 13-7. Now I don't want to say it discredits all of his accomplishments but it certainly undermines his legacy.

 

Calzaghe would completely out-jazzercise Canelo and Roy could very well Richard Hall him

 

I guess my sarcasm just went over your head. Obviously I was being facetious to show you that any bonehead can pick apart and create false narratives about literally any fighter in history even atg like Roy.

 

Again these are all opinions not facts. Would've, could've, should've but didn't blah blah blah

 

Right, but what I posted isn't a 'false narrative'. It is a series of facts about the fighters Canelo has faced, their ages, the consensus among experienced folk who watched them about who won certain bouts and the quality of his opponents based on their own CVs.

You were claiming that Cotto had 'decent wins' at MW. He has precisely TWO wins - one against a guy who retired immediately afterwards and the other was Daniel Geale.

That's a false narrative.

MTF

 

Clinton woods? Lmao...you seem to overrate UK fighters from the 90s and Eurobums in general. Woods gtfh

 

I'll bet loads of money you've never seen Clinton Woods fight once. You haven't watched Benn v Eubanks, never mind Clinton Woods.

Woods would have started as favourite over every single bloke Canelo has beaten at 168.

Speaking of Eurobums, who has Canelo been beating at 168 again?

MTF

 

Don't make assumptions about me. I watched that fight on TV. It was right around when Roy came out with his famous rap song "ya'll must have forgot". From what I remember is NOBODY had heard of Clinton Woods because he never fought outside of the UK(only faced local competition) Until he faced Jones . His claim of fame was beating Yawe Davis. Basically a no name out side of your local pub in Merry Old England.

 

I don't believe you, but basically the only fight of his you've watched is the one he had with RJJ? And you think that's enough to form an overall opinion on how good or otherwise he was?

Okay

MTF

 

Imagine watching a guy get beaten by an ATG and deciding, in isolation, that this means he is shit. Joe Frazier is obviously a total bum. I watched him against that Foreman guy. Fucking useless.

MTF

 

No disrespect but I know enough boxing to know that generally the better competition is in America. A guy like Woods that had never fought outside of the UK brought over to face Roy Jones didn't impress anybody over here. I'm not sure what you want me to say? I'm not saying there aren't great UK fighters because there's plenty of UK hall of famers but Clinton fuckin Woods? Now who's reaching. Lol

 

So you are basing your opinion of him on one fight? Gotcha.

MTF

 

This is how daft your position is. You are happily chatting about how shit these UK fighters are and about how you need to fight in American and beat Americans to be any good. Yet, since your man got some very generous judging to win his title at 160, 50% of his opponents at 160-168 have been...British

Smith has fought zero Americans and twice in the US. BJJ has fought one American and twice in the US. And as for Rocky Fielding

Clinton Woods performances against Glen Johnson literally pisses all over every single win these three combined can muster. And these are the legendary titlists and challengers you reckon Canelo should be lauded for beating.

MTF

 

If you know boxing, then you decent fighters can exist outside of the USA and some, shock, may never even fight there.

 

I really don't know what's so controversial about saying Clinton Woods would beat Saunders, Smith and Plant.

 

You should have stopped right here, Georgie.