Greater fighter Trinidad or Canelo?

Oh yeah are you a boxer?

 

MTF[/QUOTE]

It's new years eve so my short answer would be. Roy definitely beats Canelo. Calzaghe probably beats Canelo. Other than that the rest is a coin toss. I know the mid 90s was the golden era of the 168 divisiin but this was before vada testing so probably all those guys were on steroids and that's something to consider. You had Collins, Benn, Eubank, McClellan who were much tougher than Ward, Kessler and Froch. Not saying those would be easy fights but because of Canelo's style guys that come forward are fights I would favor Canelo in. That's why Calzaghe and Roy would give Canelo all kinds of trouble.

 

Ward would beat canelo rather clearly imo

 

Possibly because of his elusiveness but Ward and Canelo unlike the rest of the mythical match ups actually had a common opponent and both fought during the same era. I don't really believe the version of Kovalev that fought Yard and Alvarez was that far removed from his prime. During the Ward vs Kovalev I seem to remember intentional low blows that went on in that fight that Ward got away with. I remember Ward getting dropped and hurt. And shortly retired after that. It makes me question his mental toughness to quit in his prime whe something doesn't go his way. If we compare...Canelo beat Kovalev more convincingly in one fight than Ward ever could in the course of 2 fights. I know I know you'll say Kovalev was shot by the time he fought him. That seems to be the pattern with Canelo's detractors. He was too old, too small, a bum, too big. It's a never ending list of excuses to not give him credit for a victory.

 

I would certainly have him as the favorite but given both guys histories with decisions i'm not sure anything would be clear as that fight is all but a lock to go 12 rounds.

 

Before REED Responds, Are you Being 'Facetious' About Ward or Not???...

Your Boxing Debate "Tactics" are Transparent By Now, So If You're Eventually Going to Resort to Being "Facetious" All Aloooooooong, Let REED Know Now, for the Sake of Time, Por Favor???...



REED

 

Kov wasn't that far removed from his prime when he fought Nelo?

The laughs just keep on coming from this guy.

 

Yeah, I am now, but I wasn't then. A few years ago, I had to cut weight for a kickboxing points match when I weighed in a few days before the fight and I was almost 6kg over. My coach (who has since had his licence revoked for all sorts of dodgy shit, one of them being mistreatment of his fighters) told me to take three of these pills he gave me before the fight. These electrolyte pills he give me gave me awful BCAA like shivers and made me take about 30 pisses a day. It was horrible, but it got the weight off.

I didn't really know what to do once I'd made weight that morning - I was 14 - so I didn't get anywhere near enough water in me, or food, and was really jittery and gaunt by the time my fight came on the show. I got absolutely marked up badly and it was only a points match. I felt sluggish and had no snap, even though it was probably the best shape I'd ever been in at that point.

I ain't ever doing that shit again.

 

I'm not saying Kovalev wasn't past his prime what I'm saying is that he wasn't as shot as people make it seem. There are two factors that have to be considered to say a fighter is shot. Age and a declining track record. Age is a gray area. There are plenty of boxers throughout history that have proven that age is nothing but a number. In recent history a 49 year old Hopkins broke the record for the oldest man to win a championship title. I think Foreman was 45 when he became a hw champ again. Larry Holmes was a champ in his 40s and the list goes on. Two things we need to consider here. Kovalev was a 36 year old title holder on a 2 fight win streak when he Canelo fought. When Canelo fought GGG he was 36. And GGG who is a year older than Kovalev looked damn good against Canelo in spite of your oh-so-convenient old-guy past his prime rule. So considering his age and previous two fights I don't think it's unreasonable to say Kovalev wasn't that far removed from his prime. Your double standards are showing even more obviously than usual here. Lol@ you acting like Kovalev being past his prime when he fought Canelo is some sort of undisputable fact. That’s some serious hater take right there, and some uncanny smoothness in your switching from a hater to a unbiased stance.

 

Kovalev was broken down drunk by the time him and Canelo fought.

 

I'd honestly pick Canelo over Tito, I have to admit.

 

What weight? He sure as Hell ain't beating Tito at 154.

Washed up Cotto took 4-5 rounds off Canelo at 154.

 

I'd pick the Canelo of the GGG fights (even though I thought he lost both) against the Tito of the Joppy fight.

 

REED, in the past, I did a little research on the Jones/Hall fight test results. All I ever found was that Roy did not submit a B side test. Do you have a link to show me something otherwise? Not being a dick, but I just wasn't able to find that info.

As far as the whole Canelo Clenbuterol thing, I've made my opinion known, the hair follicle don't lie, 6 months of prior usage, he could't even cycle it. He was cleared with the hair follicle. Clenbuterol is used in Mexico and other countries to

fatten up cattle, same as different substances we use here in the USA that other aesthetes have tested positive from eating meat here and have been subject to barrings etc.

With that said, I do agree that most if not all are on something.

 

Canelo gets a lot of hate and I've made a long post about this before and reasons why. There was one reason I had in mind that I didn't want to play, but fuck it because it's become too obvious, not just here, everywhere. I do think a part of lots

of people here hating on Canelo is he is a Pale Mexican fighter who has taken the throne and he's running shit. I just don't feel comfortable hating on a fighter whether he be blue, black, brown, orange if he just absolutely ran through an entire division and

became undisputed in 11 months. Most of our favorite fighters fight one a year, maybe twice he fought 4.

Instead of disparaging all things Canelo, let me reiterate....

He offered Charlo a fight, Charlo declined.

Was looking into a fight with Beterbiev, Beterbiev was busy.

He's Clenelo the cheat- He volunteered a hair follicle test, and he was cleared.

I've been told that the hate comes from cherry-picking, yet he has the best resume of any active fighter right now at age 31.

I've been told that it's because of his re-hydration clauses, Canelo isn't some groundbreaking fighter in this aspect.

There's something else, has to be, and if that's the only conclusion that's left and the race/nationality card rubs people the wrong way, well I've been around 20 years back to Boxingwise, ESPN Boards, Secondsout, and I never gave a shit about other poster's

feeling's or hang ups and I'm not about to start now.

Canelo is better and greater than Tito right now.

 

To be honest, people are a bit hypocrite when it comes to phd. Nobody call toney a drug cheat, yet he failed a roid test, while pretty much everyone call canelo a drug cheat, even though it's pretty obvious that his clen test was caused by tainted meat.

As for canelo greatness, i think hes a bit overrated. I praise him for being active and fighting a lot of top guys, but i think his improved performance at 168 are mostly due to weak state of that weightclass. Im pretty sure tito would have blasted those fools as, or more impressively.
Let's not forget that at 154 and 160, everytime he faced an elite fighter, it was close and controversial (bar maybe cotto)

 

Cotto and Trinidad never fought one another. Why does everyone assume Cotto would lose to Trinidad? Cotto was a much better boxer. Trinidad was a one dimensional knockout artist with a deadly left hook. But Hopkins and De La Hoya gave us the blue print on how to deal with his aggressive style and easily box circles around him. Hopkins said it he's a left hooker and one-dimensional.

 

I have always felt there is a double standards not just here in this forum but any other boxing forum I've posted at. Can't quite put my finger on it on why they hate on the guy so much. Maybe he's one of those guys that people will appreciate more once he's retired the way Chavez and Duran are now. Not saying he's as great as them so don't get it twisted .

 

Trinidad was much better than Cotto.

 

Tito vs. Cotto would come down to a battle of who's left hook is better, and that guy is Tito

 

I keep thinking Cotto vs Margarito 2 and how he was able to display his boxing ability and picked Margacheato apart. He was so much more versatile. Tito only fought one way. He was a bulldozer just plowed you down. I believe Cotto would beat Tito.

 

You're a waste of time. Your mouth is too firmly placed around Canelo's cock to say anything even remotely objective.

 

I wasn't even saying anything about Canelo. I said Cotto could give Tito some trouble with his movement. Guys that gave Tito trouble were boxers like DLH and Hopkins. Wright and Jones also outboxed Trinidad but it would be unfair to bring that up as Tito was way past it. When you think about it Tito's best win at 160 was Joppy. Canelo's chin was able to withstand GGG's power and walk him down. What makes you think Tito could ko Canelo or beat him at 160 or above? How?

 

Yeah Cotto is one of those solid guys who will definitely be competitive, but his defense is average, and he’s gonna be bombarded with power shots he’s never come close to seeing in his life.

He has to basically be PERFECT all night to have a shot at beating Tito whereas Tito doesn’t have to be. 12 rounds is a long time for Cotto to be in there with Tito and not make any mistakes.

 

Yeah you don't need Lamotta's chin or Floyd's defense to beat Tito but as you say i don't see Cotto fighting near perfectly for all 12. Whether it's the second round or the 11th it doesn't matter. Trinidad will land a heavy bomb and i'll bet on Tito to finish matters over Cotto recovering.

 

God damn it you guys are right. Hate to admit it Tito would catch him at some point. Plus cotto was never one to tie up when he got hurt and if Tito sensed he had his opponent hurt he was a great finisher. Changed my mind Don't see Cotto going the distance with Trinidad.

 

The worst version of Canelo was at 147 and 154. So I would take Tito at those weight classes but at 160 and 168 I take Canelo by decision or possibly late stoppage. That is my fair unbiased prediction.

 

Canelo was a novice teenager at 147. Trinidad would slaughter him at 147, but its not even worth discussing.

I confidently pick Tito at 154.

At 160, I can see the Canelo case, but I still pick Tito. Canelo plain and simple is NOT prime Hopkins. He's not even remotely close.

At 168, obviously Canelo.

 

Prime Trinidad had an aura about him that I've never felt with Canelo. That probably none of us have felt with Canelo.

Tito was feared. You felt that invariably, he would corner and murder his prey in the end. Whether it be round 2 or round 12, that eventually, he was gonna get his man... and in violent fashion. Its a feeling that I imagine was similar to how cats felt in the 70s watching lightweight Duran; but I didn't experience lightweight Duran live. Tito I did.

With Canelo, its more a feeling that this guy has soooooo much stacked in his favor, that its unlikely he'll lose.

 

I never watched Tito live unfortunately but I watched a lot of his fights live on TV. And I couldn't agree more. Tito was a true ko artist. If I could compare him to anyone it would be a prime Tyson. You just knew his fights would end in brutal fashion. Canelo doesn't fight like that he's more methodical. I wouldn't say Canelo has the same one punch devastating power Trinidad had. Canelo has heavy hands and most of his finishes are from accumulation of punches to the body and head. The only thing I disagree with is that in his recent fights you can't really say Canelo had anything stacked in his favor vs Smith, Saunders or Plant. No rehydriation clauses, no catch weight, no size advantage and no controversial decisions. You could argue they were weaker champions but still undefeated champions.