Rank the three southpaw GOATs

The consensus three greatest southpaws of all time are Whitaker, Pac, and Hagler.

Rank them in terms of better and greater.

Pac has a good argument as being the greatest of three. However, in terms of quality... he's easily the weakest link, at least imo.

Prime Hagler and prime Whitaker were both better fighters than Pac imo.

 

Pac has an argument as being the greatest in terms of achievements, Hagler and Whitaker were both superior in the H2H department IMO.

Resume: Pac, Hagler, Whitaker
H2H: Hagler, Whitaker, Pac

 

I would probably rank Whitaker as slightly greater than Hagler, but it's debatable.

On pure peak, I would say early 80s Hagler was the best of the three.

 

Hagler was without question the most complete of the three.

Obviously not as good defensively as Pea, but still defensively responsible, and better defensively than Pac.

Hagler had a more complete and precise offense than Pac, despite lacking Pac's awesome handspeed.

 

I’d put them all inside the top 30 all time with Hagler ever so slightly above Pac and Sweet Pea.

When you look at Hagler’s record, he lost a couple of debatable decisions and one genuine one early on but that’s it. Between winning the title from Minter in 1980 and up to his defense against Duran in 1983 he was pretty much flawless - he didn’t put a foot wrong in those three years - and he might have been the most dominant middleweight of all time in that period.

 

I rate Pac at the top in both categories. I assume they all deserve *'s for juicing, though.

 

I sure as Hell would like to hear the case for Pac as the "best" of the three.

Hagler has a case for being the best H2H middleweight in history.

Whitaker has a case for being the best H2H lightweight.

What division has Pac been as dominant in?

 

Pac's rise through the weight divisions is unprecedented though so it's hard to compare on that front. Personally I felt his optimum division was 140 and he could have made a case for being the best-ever there, but obviously the money fights were higher up so he didn't stick around.

Saying all that I do agree with the consensus that Pacquiao should go down as the greatest of the three, but in terms of h2h better I'd have it 1) Hagler, 2) Whitaker, 3) Pac.

 

@Jel perfectly articulated why I would have Hagler top as well. During that stretch as champion he was immaculate.

 

It doesn't really matters if pac was the best of a division or not. Completely different type of career since he went up in weights a lot more than the other two.

As for my answer, it's true that pac is imo, the least impressive of tje three, as his game was rather basic. Still, im far from sure he wasn't as good, if not better. His results are incredibly impressive, especially considering the size disadvantage he was at

 

doesnt Hager get put down a notch for not going up in weight though?

also 'head to head' is pure opinion so I don't understand why it's taken into account when ranking greatness....it doesn't even belong on this forum, as its for the mythical match ups section

I think it goes
Pac
Pea
Hagler

 

Hagler would be fat if he tried to move up to LHW

 

I'd rate Pacquiao as the greatest of the three; with Hagler not far behind and Pernell at a close, but clear third. Pacquiao's career is the most impressive IMO due to how he sailed through the weights; has the deepest résumé and was atop the boxing world for 20 years. He's the greatest fighter of his generation IMO. While I'd probably say that about Whitaker, I definitely wouldn't about Hagler.

I'd choose Whitaker as the best of three, followed closely by Hagler and Pacquiao as a close, but clear third. The distance between Hagler and Pacquiao is a lot closer than the difference between Pacquiao and the forth best southpaw, Saldivar IMO.

 

In terms of greatness I think Pacquiao and Whitaker are pretty much interchangeable, and I'd give both a bit of room ahead of Hagler there. I've tended to go with Whitaker in that respect, but as the years roll on I'm becoming more amenable to the idea that Pacquiao has a claim to edge him out. I'd probably stick with Whitaker but there's not much in it.

Both faced their rival for pound for pound supremacy within their own time, and you'd have to say that Whitaker made a better go of it against Chavez (scored a 'draw', but let's not split hairs) than Pacquiao did against Mayweather. If you put a lot of emphasis on the Chavez and Nelson performances then Whitaker has impressive and largely dominant showings against truly elite (and close enough to prime) all-time greats of the rank which Pacquiao can't quite match...But that does come with the caveat that Whitaker did have some things in his favour for those fights which Pacquiao didn't have by the time he fought Mayweather.

So Whitaker arguably has the best couple of really elite wins / performances on each man's record, but Pacquiao definitely has more good / solid level wins on his record beneath that. Pacquiao has worse losses (not that any of them are cause for embarrassment) which has to factor in - but at the same time, he much more longevity at world class level than Whitaker.

As for 'better', I really have no idea. I guess it depends on your criteria. Hagler at his best might well have been the most complete all-rounder of the trio and when he hit the groove, he did look almost perfect. But for all his physical gifts his ring smarts did let him down a couple of times at big moments. As a pure boxer Whitaker was immense, but obviously not to everyone's taste. Pacquiao wasn't as smooth or schooled as either of them but had tremendous physical gifts which could compensate for that (for what it's worth I think his footwork and intelligence have often been underrated).

I guess Pacquiao was outboxed a couple of times in his prime years, though, so I suppose I'll take him out of consideration here. Between Whitaker and Hagler...I'll go with Marvin and tentatively call him 'the best', on the proviso that we're imaging each man in tip-top form. Whitaker was bit more consistent but Hagler was a joy to watch when he got going.

 

Great post, Chris.

 

Great point. What does H2H even mean. Like if Pac, Pea and Hagler were all the same size who would win or what ?

If we are determining greatness comparing something tangible like Pac being the only 8 division champion should take precedence over any hypothetical bullshit like whether or not you think he was the best WW or Middle weight. Opinions are not facts. 8 division champion that's a fact.

 

I would value your opinion if you've ever seen any prime Hagler fight, but we all know you haven't, so... I dont.

 

Here are the facts.

1)you have no idea what fights I watched.

2)Hagler fought his entire career at MW and lost to Leonard. Can't even say he was the best fighter of his generation.

3)Pac being an 8 division champ is an undisputable FACT and more impressive than being "One of the best" MW to ever lace them up. Again that's subjective.

 

We all have a pretty good idea that you haven't watched much. Its readily apparent each day.

 

Again what I watched or your opinion of me doesn't change the facts. 8 division champ vs one division champ.

 

in todays youtube era i don't see how you can accuse someone of not watching easily accessible fights

Pac and Pea did great things in higher weight classes, giving up height/reach/weight.....can't see how Hagler ranks ahead of that

 

Dominating a deep division in the 80s, before titles world title belts were sullied and made a joke, can be considered more impressive than jumping division after division in the 00s.

You're on a slippery slope, where you can begin to argue that Cotto (a 4-division champion) is greater than Carlos Monzon (one division champ).

 

pac is clearly greater than hagler. and it is not just multiple weights, but the comp he faced and beat in those weights, which were every bit as formidable as the contenders hagler beat at 160.

 

Cotto? That's not a fair comparison on so many levels. For one Cotto was not a lineal champion. Pacquio was. All the fights Cotto fought at MW were not even @160. He fought an aging Martinez at 159 and Geale at 157. I guess you could say Cotto was a 4 division champ if you want to get technical.

 

I agree, Pacquiao is clearly the greatest of these three IMO.

 

Corrie Sanders, Usyk and Rocky are the true GOAT lefties.

 

Hagler then
Whitaker

 

Rocky had by far the worst defense of any southpaw.

 

Ever. In history, in cinema, all of it. Literally should be in a nursing home looking for his cat or something

 

balboa was a south paw?