Mosley vs Mayweather and Pacquiao

Prime for prime?

 

Gotta be honest, I know a lot of people will pick a young Shane but I just don't see it. I think he just isn't as good as either guy. He's more dangerous, sure, and he's always got a punchers chance, but he's not on Floyd or Manny's level. I don't think age really came into his fight with Mayweather anyway. It was more that Mayweather adjusted and figured him out, Mosley couldn't adjust back and then did what he unfortunately did quite often, and that's settle for going the distance and stop trying to win.

 

Floyd is always gonna be too smart.

Pac? Nope! 98-00 Mosley beats Pac imo.

Pac has sure gotten a lot of mileage out of beating corpses of Shane and Oscar.

 

I pick Mosley to lose clearly to both.

 

Id pick him against both

 

You tend to pick Shane to lose clearly a lot.

 

Yeah, and?

 

Mosley didn't beat many great fighters with the exception of Oscar. Even with that I felt that as great as Shane fought, Oscar fought the wrong tactics due to the criticism he received from the Tito fight. I know that Sly used to say that shit all the time but there's definite merit to it imo. I also thought Mosley lost the rematch.

I think Shane was a really good fighter, depending on the style and class of his opponent but I do think he's kinda overrated. I've just seen him lose wide and give up mentally too many times to pick him over two bona fide ATG's. The size difference does give him more of a chance against Pacquiao though, I'll admit.

 

In reality Mosley lost to every great fighter he fought with the exception of Oscar, who should've won the rematch.

He gets massively overrated.

 

In reality Mosley was a massive underdog to Margarito and utterly destroyed him.

He arguably drew with a prime Cotto, at a point when he was past his prime.

He dominated lightweight, and actively called out Stevie Johnston left and right. Stevie was scared shitless of him. Nazarov, whom you like to hype, didn't wanna face him either.

No one overrates Mosley anymore. 20 years ago he was overrated, now if anything he gets undersold. No one is calling him as great as Pac, but yeah, prime for prime he would be too strong with too much firepower for Pac.

Pac isn't used to facing guys with a handspeed advantage over him - which prime Mosley would have.

 

In reality, he lost to Cotto and we all agreed on the other thread, Miguel isn't a great fighter. And beating Margarito is only impressive up to a point. Just coz you can beat Margarito doesn't mean you can beat Manny Pacquiao.

He dominated a bunch of scrubs. Let's have it right. A prime Mosley fought 3 elite fighters and on fair cards went 1-5 against them.

Pacquiao is faster than Mosley.

 

Lol Pac was not faster than prime Mosley. At all.

And what prime elites has Pac ever managed to beat above 130?

Pac wasn't even a mainstream blip until he beat... ohhh yeah... the corpse of DLH. Yet you're quick to write off Mosley's win over a PRIME Oscar, at a time when Oscar was still top 5 P4P and a heavy favorite over Mosley going in.

I'll wait alllllllllll day for you to name which wins Pac has at the higher weights as impressive as a clear win over a peak DLH and a one sided beatdown over a prime Marg.

 

Also, I wasnt aware that Philip Holiday, Lejia, and John John Molina were "scrubs". A Lejia that would go on to have quality performances years AFTER Mosley battered him.

You can be biased, but don't talk out your ass.

Who the fuck did Pac beat at 135? Ohhh yeah, the mighty David Diaz

 

Without getting into the resume debate, I'll leave that to you two, I think Pacquiao was clearly faster than Shane. Don't get me wrong, prime Shane was FAST, and I think he's fast enough for handspeed to not really be too much of a factor in a fight between the two. However, Manny carried his lower-weight speed up really well into the higher weights and was definitely faster for me.

 

The handspeed debate we can have separately. What I wanna know is what is so spectacular about Pac's wins above 130?

Because alllllllll of them were tainted in some way.

 

Pacquiao was faster than Mosley. I don't even know why you'd refute it, it's obvious. I've literally just watched them both go for a KO in their prime and Pacquiao's hands were clearly faster.

Pacquiao's natural weight is 15lbs lighter than Mosley's, and his record at welterweight is still way better than Mosley's. And I don't know why you're bringing up the DLH fight, I know it was a farce and have literally never used it as a good win for Pacquiao. It wasn't, DLH was corpse. Pacquiao doesn't have a singular win better than them, but he also didn't lose every time he fought an elite fighter. In reality

They're scrubs compared to Pacquiao and Mayweather. And please, let's not pretend for a second you really think Molina, Leija and Holiday were anything but third raters.

I don't know why your so fixated on Pac's own wins over 130, when he was a 130lber. Especially when even though his best work was at the lower weights, Pacquiao's record at welterweight shits all over Mosley's.

 

Take your own advice.

You're deluded when it comes to Mosely.

 

I would say plenty of people would refute it. Mosley has a good case as top 5 all time in handspeed. His problem was that his MIND didn't work as quickly as other speed demons like Leonard and Jones. But purely it terms of handspeed... his was blinding.

And please, go into more depth about Shane losing "every time he fought and elite fighter" when his apex performance literally came against an elite fighter. Its as if you keep writing off the DLH win like it was no big deal.

Mosley was THE FIRST fighter to clearly beat Oscar.

Much of the public still considered DLH an undefeated fighter going into that fight. He was a heavy, heavy favorite. The consensus opinion was that Oscar was gonna ice Mosley.

And while Holiday, Molina, and Lejia aren't murders row, you called them "scrubs". Which they CLEARLY were not.

David Diaz was a scrub though. You calling out that one?

 

Not a Mosley fan. Never have been, never will be. Youre pretty clueless as to my history here, but Slice or JOM can tell you that I used to despise Shane and worship Floyd. REED can tell you that too.

The only thing that changed (besides me no longer liking Floyd) is that I gained respect for Mosley.

I think he's a good guy, but I've never been a fan of his. He's not even in my top 40 all time favorites.

 

Musze and Neil are by far the two biggest fans Shane has had on this forum. Those two are legitimate fans of him.

I've been Mosley neutral for the last 17 years.

Prior to 2004-ish, he was literally my least favorite fighter.

 

Mosley out-boxing a prime DLH at WW is more impressive than any of Pac or Mayweather's wins at WW or 154.

I have no idea if that translates to him beating both, however

 

I wasn't blown away by what Pac did to a shot Mosley, nevermind a prime Mosley.

 

I am a big Shane Mosley fan, I remember when he was just a baby standing in the corner of the gym watching.
He isn't going to beat Mayweather, not ever.
I lost a ton of faith in Shane when he moved up to welter, and his performance in the Forrest fights compounded that. His first fight with Oscar was an opportunity for them both to shine but, to me, it relegated both of them to "oh well" status. It is one thing to perform quality moves against so so opposition, but, in their biggest moment, they both fought afraid. That fight could have been so much but they both folded.
Fighting Pacquiao...Shane certainly has the tools to win the fight, but I am not convinced that he has the skill. Does that make sense? Even at 135, his best weight, while he is certainly capable of timing Pac, of taking the fight to him, I don't know if he would. I think that Pacquiao is stronger mentally, maybe hungrier?, and he would fight his fight and Shane would react.
That certainty that you are going to go out and fight your fight, and impose your fight over the top of what the other guy wants to do, is the thing that separates fighters. Mayweather was very strong in that area. Pacquiao was pretty strong , and Shane struggled with that when the other guy didn't let him. That is my opinion, and you might be able to point at the Holiday fight and try to prove me wrong as that fight misled me at the time as well.

 

I really question if Pac could handle the body attack of Mosley at 135.

Pac's odds seem to be better at 147. There's a good number of welters in history who could whup Shane, but he was pretty special at lightweight.

 

I agree that 135 was Shane's best weight. And if he could, or would, do what it takes to put himself in position to hit Pac in the body...but I am not sure about his willingness to do that. I have no doubts about his physical capabilities but, over the years, I have become dubious of the ways in which he chose to apply them.

 

Ring IQ was definitely Shane's biggest weakness.

I remember circa 2000 the biggest debate in the sport was who was better: Shane or Roy.

The question seems crazy now, but at the time, many said Shane. Not me. It was always apparent, even then, that Roy's brain worked a helluva lot faster than Shane's.

 

Shane had every bit of the physical skill that Roy had, but he wasn't always able to apply it.

 

2011 was a far cry from 2000 Mosley. The pre-Forrest version.

Is Pac gonna be able to withstand those punches? He’s no defensive wiz himself.

I’d take Mosley via late stoppage.

 

mosley's one-sided losses to forrest, wright and mayweather just show how limited he was. if he were in pac's league, he'd at least have won rounds in those fights.

 

People keep bringing up the Floyd loss, but if we can mention past-prime Mosley losses, why are we pretending like Pac doesn't have Ls on his record to Bradley, Horn, and a one punch KO loss to Marquez?

And how is a loss to a much bigger man in Wink at 154 relevant to how a Mosley-Pac matchup would go at 135?