Where do you rate Roman Gonzalez at super fly/junior bantam all-time

Where do you rank him as his record is now and where would you rank him if he beat Estrada in a rubber match?

 

If he beats Estrada for the second time at 115

 

Well, it was a close fight and he lost it on the cards.

 

We’re talking about a total of 9 fights at the weight so far between 2016 and 2022, which include all three of his losses as a pro.

To be ranked in the upper echelons at the weight I think he’ll need an official win over Estrada and then he’ll have two close defeats on points and just the one emphatic , indisputable loss against 7 wins including Estrada, Cuadras and Martinez.

 

Gonzalez has 1 legit loss in my book.

 

I thought all of his losses were legit.

Still a legend though.

 

For what it’s worth, I had Gonzalez beating Estrada 116-114 and SSR beating Gonzalez 114-113 but both fights could have gone to either man so I can’t ignore the result. But I don’t hold the losses heavily against Gonzalez either, though.

 

That Thai beat several shades of chocolate out of him. Two clear defeats there at least.

 

Gonzales vs Inoue/Donaire needs to happen. We can't have a guy parading as one of the best of all time without facing 2 legends a mere 3 lbs heavier.

 

No respect for the legend from the peon gallery

 

Exactly.

 

Chocolatito shouldn't be obligated to face those two. He's naturally way smaller than either and there's plenty of guys at his own weight for him. Estrada III, Rungvisai III, Cuadras II, Fukunaga, Rodriguez, Ioka, Ancajas, Tanaka, F.Martinez, etc; there's absolutely loads for Chocolatito to do at 115. It's an insanely deep the division - best in boxing IMO - so no need for Gonzalez to abandon it. If he was prime, I'd agree but Inoue avoided prime Gonzalez like the plague.

 

Any thoughts about his place in the history of the division?

 

High-ish. Hard to really rate him highly when he lost his three biggest fights there. Despite how close in ability the three of them are, Estrada should definitely be rated the highest at 115 IMO. Super Flyweight is an awesome division though.

 

inoue avoided gonzalez?

 

After his last 2 performances, I feel it's a bit of a stretch to say Gonzales is not in his prime anymore. He may not be at his peak but I don't thins he s far off from it either. Not gonna lie, I don t follow the smaller weight as much, but the perception, right or wrong, is that he's a ''B level'' great while Donaire is a A level one (and probably Inoue too soon). Beating one of them would do wonder for his legacy, not to mention his bank account.

 

No, I wouldn’t agree with that. Donaire is not as great as Gonzalez. I’d say it’s the other way round from how you described it.

 

Yeah. He skipped 112 while Gonzalez was active there to face an old, old Narvaez at 115. He then proceeded to spend years without fighting anybody worthwhile at 115 while Gonzalez, Estrada and Rungvisai were testing themselves.

 

It may well be (though people forgot how highly regarded Donaire was when he obliterated Montiel). Still, fact is, Donaire will be remembered highly than Chocolatito, no matter what the hardcore fans think about it. Good news for Gonzales though is that he can change this by moving up a mere 3 lbs and beating him (on top of making a career high payday). Yet for some weird reason, his fans seem to be against it. I wonder why ...

 

I think he's been declining ever since the Cuadras fight. Maybe it's the move to 115 but he clearly isn't the beast he was in like, 2015. However, he is still an unbelievable fighter.

Personally, I'd argue it's the other way around. Chocolatito's resume is clearly better than Donaire's and his losses aren't as bad. Donaire was also far more limited in the sense that, there was a clear stylistic foil to him. No such thing exists with Chocolatito.

Donaire will inevitably be remembered more, as he's far more marketable in America and was marketed far better by HBO. HBO didn't really give much of a shit about Gonzalez or that weight until he'd pretty much done his best work below 115. After that, they picked him up and he got some hype behind before losing to Rungvisai. He never had the backing Donaire had from the start of his championship career.

 

Also, Donaire is a collosal bantamweight. Gonzalez is a small super flyweight. I'd much rather see Gonzalez continue to fight excellent fighters in a deep division than move up and have his career ended in an unwinnable match-up.

 

no way is a 34 year old flyweight in his prime.

 

I agree with George and Jel other than that I thought Roman was hard done by in the first Sor Rungvisai fight and the Estrada rematch. It takes some nerve and ignorance to put the onus on a much naturally smaller, past prime and older but accomplished great already above his best weight class like Gonzalez to step up and face someone like Inoue. Especially when the latter is the one pissing away his prime fighting shit opponents and not really striving to test himself despite having wrangled splinter portions of the pie below bantam when the fights were there to be made.

The one semi-good fighter he's faced is the old-arse version of Donaire, and he struggled like fuck in that fight. He's nowhere near being a great fighter as yet imo; his career is becoming underwhelming and disappointing despite the four weight champion bollocks being eschewed. Donaire himself was similar to a point in his own prime, though he at least did trample some good fighters. Announced himself in style by crushing Darchinyan and then disappointingly trod water for yonks before obliterating Montiel, taking the declining Nishioka etc before fizzling out rather meekly against Rigo, who exposed Donaire's limitations.

Gonzalez is greater than Donaire without question to me and a better all round fighter p4p. He only really started to look a bit more human above light fly once his one punch power and physical strength slightly declined and had a lesser impact versus bigger fighters. Like was mentioned above, he's been poorly promoted and exposed compared to the likes of Donaire and was already past prime by the time he began finally getting his due. He didn't help himself though imo by spending too long in obscurity at straw weight and fighting non-title fights at light fly, especially for an an aggressive pressure fighter, but I think he'd been the best p4p for a while before being more widely acknowledged as such. The post SSR version looks nothing like the man who dismantled the likes of Yaegashi, Sosa etc and previous fighters.

 

In terms of his super-fly ranking.....I dunno. His body of work there is good but so are the ones there of many other fighters. The likes of Moon, Watanabe, Galaxy, Roman, Konadu, Tapia, Chul Ho-Kim, Orono, Penalosa, Narvaez, Estrada, Sor Rungvisai, Kawashima etc.

P4P though I think he's the best and greatest fighter of the 2010s, with the majority of Pac and Mayweathers best work being done prior barring the odd win.

 

Kawashima is probably the most unheralded of the former super bantam champs. Very good fighter, though kinda a poor man's Watanabe.

 

Sure, cause asking a fighter to move a mere 3 lbs for a superfight that could define his career is unreasonable . No wonder that we barely ever get the good matchups in boxing with fans like this...

And yes Inoue career is starting to become a big disappointment, butsay what you want about an ' old' Donaire,but he's better than anyone Gonzalez beat and by a significant margin to booth.

 

Gonzalez's career is already defined. He's 34 and in his fourth weight division, past his best already fighting naturally bigger men and with plenty of good ones to face without moving up further. Super fly is the best division in the sport and Inoue is the one who skipped through it without facing any fucker.

Fans like this . Feck off you cheeky shitgibbon. I'll reply properly in a bit, I'm at work at the minute.

 

No, he isn't

And it is unreasonable. Imagine if Donaire had moved all the way up to featherweight through the course of his career, beating everyone around as he did so, and right now at the twilight if his career, the only way he can prove himself to be a legend is to move up to 3lbs for a fight with Shakur Stevenson at 129.

That sound reasonable to you? Coz it's essentially what you're asking.

And Gonzalez-Donaire isn't even a good match up

 

Gonzalez is a lot more skilled than donaire and has had a considerably better career

You guys will soon learn no one here takes this canucklehead clown and his halfwit of a brother seriously

 

If 3 pounds is nothing, get Inoue to drop it and clean out super fly instead rather than the wasteland at bantam.