Anthony Joshua vs Francis Ngannou & Joseph Parker vs Zhilei Zhang

what about furry vs valuev or akinwande?

 

I think Frazier would have beaten the hell outta Fury.

 

marvis vs hughie?

 

Fury is a good fighter. Would probably be the 4th best heavyweight of the 90s.

 

This is alllll you need to know about a difference in class.

A barely trained, unmotivated Lewis still managed to rip Vitali's face off and win.

A barely trained, unmotivated Fury can't beat a novice.

 

You think it's only a coincidence that the US, which gave us prettt much all the hw atg, is barely producing any decent hw since a few decades?

 

Is it safe to say that AJ looks to have improved since his 2 losses to Usyk? Granted he just beat a 0-1 novice but this fight and against Wallin showed how sharp AJ can be when he’s focused.

 

I think it’s still the same AJ. He’ll always struggle with a guy that has ability and ring IQ.

 

Yeah, these 2 guys were taylor made for him. Hes still the same unsecure, robotic guy (albeit with huge power and a nice punch selection)

 

Agreed. A fighter's stock is always going to go up after a massive knockout but context always matters. Ngannou didn't have to make AJ think very much, only had to be wary of his power. That's not nothing but it comes with the territory of heavyweight boxing.

 

Fury, God forgive me, is like Ali, Calzaghe etc in that he makes things far far harder than they have to be for himself.

Duly informed of the threat posed by Wilder, he boxed accordingly.

Against Cunningham, p
Paijkic, Ngannou, McDermott etc he somehow made hard work of much lesser opponents.

 

And BTW, people are not getting taller in the last few decades, at least, not in the US. They are getting bigger, but tht's because they are obese

 

Basketball players can't fight a lick. Only sport novices think a heavyweight champion is hiding in the NBA. The same retards who think LeBron can beat Tyson 'If LeBron had a year to train."

 

This "Basketball and Football" excuse is just that, its a bullshit excuse invented by bullshit fucking people to explain away a difficult situation.

It's like Boxing is the ONLY sport outside the USA when in fact it's not really popular at all.

 

Exactly. To mention nothing of the fact that the guys who really make it in boxing have a stoicism and pain threshold that marks them apart from others. The intangibles are unique.

 

Floyd Mayweather is a man apart in the annals of American boxing.

Conclusion:- everybody else 5'9" and 160 is.....playing football and basketball....right??

Smfh.....

 

Exactly, it's a niche. If boxing was on the level of other major sports in the U.S. would more guys being going into it (heavyweight or otherwise) I think the answer is yes and the sport would be healthier, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would be good at it let alone at a world championship level.

There's a hell of lot more to boxing than athleticism. It's a sport and a craft. It would be like saying because Einstein was a genius and chess is a mental game, he would have dominated the game if he dedicated himself to it. Doesn't work that way.

All this "if somebody dedicates themselves" ... stuff is a red herring. Dedication is not merely some simple choice one can do. Even if it were, the problem is there is a guy on the other side of the ring who is also dedicated and is going to punch you in the face.

 

Nobody is saying that every football or basketball player would be a great boxer. Only that pretty much all the good american athletes overs 6-2 are going in these sports, instead of boxing. And that while it's true that there is a lot more to boxing than simply athleticism, it's still probably the most important trait of a good boxer.

Again, if the NBA and NFL argument doenst make sense, explain to me how come americans are still pretty much the dominant (or one of the dominant) country in all divisions above lightweight, but they are pretty much a non entity in HW and CW boxing, even though americans are among the largest people in the world?

 

You're off your meds again it seems. I have simply no clue what point you're trying to make here

 

You think that no NBA players would make a great HW boxer if they trained at a young age?? Hell, Wilder is pretty much a failed basketball player, who took boxing only in his 20 (after his failed bb carreer), and who managed to have a HOF career only with his athleticism. Seems like you're the one who's a sport novice

 

No I think the argument is sound, it just has no relevance to anything other than explaining why American heavyweight boxing is dead.

I think a big part of it too though is boxing's huge cultural downfall; but even then you could ask which come first. Did boxing's culture decline because all of the best heavyweights weren't American for 15 years and so they all went into Basketball? Or was it the other way around? Chicken or egg and all that.

Ultimately, I think talking about basketball players in relation to boxers is mostly pointless. I'm sure Shaq would've been a brutal heavyweight, but he wasn't so it doesn't matter.

 

Idk what the numbers are, but the average heavyweight is getting bigger because weight classes are really height classes in disguise and heavyweight keeps moving up. Sure, most weight classes have outliers who are super tall or super short for their division, but there's usually a trend between height and weight class.

The average heavyweight height went up when light heavyweight was invented, and again when cruiserweight was invented, and again when cruiserweight was increased from 190 to 200. In a decade or so we'll probably see the effects of Bridgerweight too if it catches on.

 

Considering that american HW boxing decline begun pretty much in the generation after Tyson, Bowe and Holyfield, it seems to me that it's pretty obvious that it's because Football and basketball became much more lucrative and interesting. Also, IIRC it was in these years that sports scholarship for these sports started to become much more lucrative.

I got no stake in this game, I'm not american (and I don't particularly love merica) nor do I watch football or basketball, but it's pretty evident that it's a big part of the reason why HW boxing is in such a sad state

 

I got no stake either, I'd rather there be three or four great heavyweights and all be American than none. I wasn't sure if it was a cultural thing or not, but I knew scholarships would definitely have played a part.

Yeah I agree, the argument is sound that the best big guys in America aren't in boxing. Wasn't Wilder a failed basketball player as well

 

Yeah, talked about it in one of my post above.

I used to be in the ''size'' team, but seeing Usyk, who's a very good but not exceptionnal average sized HW, completely befuddled ''hot body'' Joshua twice, was a damascus road moment for me (not to mention the Ngannou Fury abomination)

The only reason why the Super freaks are dominating HW is because the talent and skills level is so low, that the only seperating factor is pretty much size

 

Exactly, of course most of NBA/NFL players wouldn't amount to much in boxing, but a lot of them would. If you're an American and you got size and athleticism, are you gonna go into football or basketball, where there's a ton of scholarship and you're gonna be taken care of at a very young age, or you gonna gamble everything and go into the cutthroat world of boxing and get punched repeatedly in the face daily?

Furthermore, a lot of modern relevant American hw were failed basketball or football players who picked up the sport late , so much for the, ''they can't fight a bit' theory. Some of you seem to think being a ''boxer'' require some magical/supernatural arcane skills

 

It's a completely absurd statement to make. NBA players are without a doubt much better fighter than the average population. Why would being good at basketball make you a bad fighter? Simply nonsensical

 

Yeah, i'm not very intelligent and your counterargument is nothing, Einstein.

There is little to no evidence that the athleticism and skillset for excelling at boxing and sports like basketball or football overlap.

So quit sucking your dad's cock and show mE where I'm wrong. Usyk with a nice headfake slam dunking over Lebron. Lennox Lewis with another stellar 10-catch game at tight end. Muhamad Ali with another sweet interception for the Cowboys. Vitali Klitschko, another European NBA superstar, showing superb ball handling for a big man.

 

And yet, you are positing that there are untold numbers of boxing superstars in their ranks. Based on?

 

Do you know how many fighters go into a fight and try to win by cut?