Rocky Marciano: Underrated Defense.

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Typical example of how, over time, myths and fables about a fighter can be perpetuated until they are presented as truth. Marciano is all too often depicted as a blood-and-guts type who, as Ring Magazine put it, was "clumsy and oafish, his skin opening at the slightest insult, but, boy, could he crack" His manager Al Weill is alleged to have described Rocky as being "not able to box a tap".

Marciano had ONE, thats right, ONE bad, potentially fight-ending cut in his entire career, against Ezzard Charles- and untypically perhaps it was a nasal as opposed to an eye injury. Not even a "regular" cut!!! Other fighters like Klitschko, not a known or reputed bleeder, have LOST title fights on cuts. Arturo Gatti lost several fights on cuts but Marciano, who never lost, period, is remembered as being as much a bleeder as either.

There is no way that any fighter in any era in any division could rack up a 49-0 ledger and not have SOME notion, much less a refined one, of how to defend himself. There is no way ANY heavyweight could rack up any amount of wins unless he had already mastered the basics and then some. In the above video Marciano demonstrates a full repertoire of defensive manoevures executed at the highest level against a wide spectrum of very capable opponents.

Consider at the 0:30 mark of the above video, that was the same move Walcott took "slick boxer" Ezzard Charles out with. Stepping in and around with the left hook. Lets not confuse defense with chin:- Marciano read Walcotts maneovure and avoided it. Charles could not, but history records Rocky as having a better chin but a much weaker defense than Ezzard Charles. In truth, he had both a good defense and a solid chin.

 

dsimon writes:

This post ought to be a sticky for all the guys who think that with the old timers you can see everything on film. I want to reference this thread. It is a perfect example of the stuff one has to look for and the stuff that one cannot see if they are not looking for it.

The people who presented this on Utube deserve a medal.... Great thread Ortho. :bears::cheer:

 

I have to admit I had some notions of Marciano as a face first slugger myself too- this clip dispelled a lot of them. The truth is that he suffered very few facial injuries in an era where fighters were allowed to fight on with bad injuries, one look at his face shows he must have had a tight D.

There was one journalist talking smack about how Marciano wouldn't get out of the first round with Lennox Lewis.....it shows you how the ignorance has proliferated to the point of insanity. Lewis would do well to land his pawing jab against Marciano, and while people talk about the uppercut, its a well known fact that technical boxers rely on establishing the jab before they try anything else.

Jake La Motta was far more face first than Marciano ever was and even he was only down once and while he suffered cuts he had far more problems with brittle hands than he ever had with cuts or swelling.

People act like slipping and high-hands were invented yesterday....

 

Marciano had a bad scalp cut against Jersey Joe in their first bout as well.

 

Well okay I missed that but again thats one of those freaky cuts, probably caused by the elbow as Marciano came in crouched. Norton split Holyfields eyebrow open with his forearm, we don't call Evander a bleeder. Classic case of the shorter guy getting cut by way of clash of arm+head.

 

Very cool vid, thanks for posting.

 

Yes, no problem.

So sorry to see Rangers lose to Zenit and slip up again yesterday.:laughing:

 

The rock was very underrated in defense for sure. Was great at Bob N. Weaving and was a master of the feint as well. The Rock was awesome.

 

Marciano was great at ducking 40 year old light Heavyweight punches for sure. Well except for a close decision over an ancient Ezzard Charles, a close win over Roland Lastarza, a come from behind KO while being beaten by a balding Walcott.

Oh yeah, his defense was awesome:nono:

 

Awesome? I thought it was said here that his defense was 'underrated'? :tease:

Good video, thanks OC...

 

Well, Ezzard Charles couldn't avoid the shots that Rocky did. And Charles had a whole tonne of experience. Rocky was a novice compared to some of these guys and still showed great seasoning. And Walcott throws that left faster than a lot of heavyweights do.

 

Ignorant poster

 

No he's not. He's dead on with his points. Don't give Marciano undo credit for defense when he manages to avoid shots from aging fighters. Stevie Wonder could have made geezers like Charles, Walcott and Moore miss every now and then.

Make no mistake about it, Marciano was a 'wade in slugger'. Yes, occasionally he ducked or managed to get a glove up, but he took a ton of shots as well.

Geez.

 

agreed. maybe the prevailing sentiment that marciano could only block punches with his face are a bit exaggerated, and i think that video clip is very well done - but you have to consider his competition, and that thru 12 rounds walcott was beating him in their first match - because he was connecting with a fair amount of his punches. the comments about marciano being a bleeder are not supported by his fights tho, he didn't cut anywhere near as bad as it has been stated

 

Marciano was good, no doubt...but no way he would beat someone with the advantages over him like Lennox lewis. lewis would absolutely murder him just because of the size factor.

 

dsimon writes:

Would it kill you to admit one simple thing junior? You simply can't see certain things when you look at the tapes of a fighter. Certain subtleties are lost when taping, and this guy captured those subtleties when he did this tape and analysis.

Its a point I have been trying to make for a while with you and a few other guys and this guy does a great job of demonstrating it.

 

dsimon writes:

Ignorant post.

 

Which Norton would that be? When did Norton fight Holyfield? ::

 

I love how the movie uses the music from "Das Boot" at the end, to make it seem more dramatic.

:::::laughing::laughing:

 

"If you look closely, Marciano's defense is underrated..."

 

"He... he ducks punches like they're nothing! It's... it's incredible!"

 

"My gosh! It... it really is underrated..."

 

"Hitting the ropes to distract Joe Louis"

::

 

LOL, I noticed that one too. ::

In all seriousness, I thought the bulk of the video was good and made its case well.

It just tried too hard in a few instances. ::

 

No.

Claiming Marciano has anything other than a "poor defense" is grossly misleading. If he had even good defense, why was he cut up like raw beef in a host of fights against aged, blown up light heavyweights.

Name one modern era fighter who got beat up and cut up the way Marciano did and then claim that person had an "underrated defense."

Old time loving idiots love to go overboard on stupid crap like this. "This video proves Marciano knew what he was doing on the defensive end" or "Look at the way Joe Louis throws those beautiful combo's" or on and on and on...

Neither Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano could beat Lennox Lewis in 50 tries. Hyping up and giving undue credit, and this is some of the biggest horseshit I've ever seen, "Marciano's instances of defense" is just irresponsible and dumb.

Now that I give it a minute I can think of a modern fighter whose face looks like hamburger alot of the time, Arturo Gatti.

If I made a video to hype Gatti's defense would you be on here agreeing?

No, you old time lovers are just ridiculous sometimes, and this thread is subjective poison on the mind.

 

While Remaining OBJECTIVE on the Subject, this Post is HILARIOUS!!!

REED

 

You could make a video like that for anyone.

 

First of all, Marciano was a blown up light heavyweight himself. Almost always being the smaller man in the ring.

Secondly, No one ever said he had the best defense....They simply said he had UNDERRATED defense. Marciano sometimes is likened to Rocky Balboa or Chuck Wepner as someone who just goes in head first. This is not how he fought. Marciano fought using pretty good head movement as well as feints to avoid the big shots. No one said he was a defensive wizard, just that he wasn't bad at closing the distance using a bit of defense.

Thirdly, it is not fair to compare old time fighters to modern era fighters with regards to damage taken. Isn't this obvious?? Things that weren't avaliable to the old timers makes it unfair, such as modern medicine and techniques used by cornermen, softer high quality gloves, and shorter fights.

And comparing Louis and Marciano to Louis is just stupid on your part. Thants like putting Tarver or Hopkins in against Louis. Gimme a break. However.....Do you actually think that Lewis could hang with Rocky or Louis being the same size?? I don't think so.

 

Underrated Defense

Only if you want to decribe Marciano's defense in the most extreme ways such as "putting his head out if you missed him" (or whatever that quote was)

That video was propaganda. Highlights of a guy slipping some jabs and blocking some punches? WOW!!!

There isns't a single fighter in history you couldn't make a similar type of video show highlighting "defensive technique" ::

Rocky is a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

Perhaps his defense could be "underrated", but let's get real here. He still was a crude fighter and did not have anything close to a great defense.

 

dsimon writes:

Well one can try when somoene goes out of their way and produces something of value that can actually highlight a point in the debate about skills of the old timers, to ask for some acknowedgment, but one cannot force people to abandon ignorance.

The video speaks for itself, it shows how things a fighter does do not appear on a tape at first glance because good fighters do things in a sneaky vis a vis a subtle way. Thats the craft of the game, thats what martial skills allow one to do... subtle things that make a big difference.

One simply cannot look at a tape at first glance and judge how good a fighter is, like a lot of idiots try to do here. Anyhow I think despite what anyone may say the tape proves this point mentioned above in spades!!