Fights where the outcome woulda been different if the guy was prime.

I did this thread a long time ago, and am bringing it back. List some fights of guys who beat past primed fighters, who they wouldnt have beaten had the opponent been prime. I'll start:

RJ-Tarver & Johnson: Prime Jones woulda had some difficulty with Tarver I'll admit, but woulda beaten him convincingly. Johnson on the other hand, woulda been a VERY easy fight for a prime Jones. A young Roy woulda beaten the living shit outta Glenn, similar to the way he did Sosa.

Tszyu-Hatton: Prime Tszyu KO's Hatton, and I'm hardly a Tszyu fan. Hell, even the old Tszyu gave Hatton a tough fight, in a fight where Ricky was allowed to CHEAT. Make it the 99-00 version of Tszyu, and put em on neutral turf where Ricky isnt allowed to blatantly hump, and Hatton doesnt see past round 8.

Tyson-Lewis: Many will disagree with this, and I cant really argue with anyone who thinks that Lummox beats Mike on his best day, but I respectfully disagree. The pre-prison Tyson KO's Lewis. He'd be too quick for Lummox to hold off, eventually Mike would get inside and explode something big, and Lewis goes to sleep. I dare not even mention Tyson-Williams, its too obvious what a prime Mike woulda done to Danny.

Hopkins-Calzaghe: The Hopkins of 6 years ago would have completely outboxed Joe.

Mancini-Haugen: A prime Mancini woulda beaten Haugen.

Johnston-Lazcano: Prime Stevie boxes rings around Laz.

Holmes-Holy: Prime Larry would have beaten Evander by clear decision.

Foreman-Morrison: This one is a given. 70's Foreman crushes Tommy like a bug. And for that matter, 70's Foreman stops Holy.

These are only some...do you agree with mine? And also, list some others.

 

I actually think Holyfield-Tyson is more of a case of this than Lewis-Tyson, but that's just my opinion.

 

good list!

I'd like to say Chavez-DLH.. but who knows?

the rest of yours I agree with...

basically all of Ali's last fights as well..

 

I agree with DLH-Chavez. A prime JC woulda gave Oscar a late round beating.

Also Chavez-Tszyu. No way does Kostya handle a prime Chavez.

 

ANY Fight that Aaron Pryor LOST...


REED:mj:

 

Yeah I think its safe to say that Bobby Joe Young wouldnt have beaten a prime Pryor.

 

As dumb as this may seem to most...and on some days, I think it's dumb too...but I often feel that a Prime DLH beats Floyd.

Good list.

 

Nothing dumb about that at all.

 

I'm curious, what weight are you thinking about for DLH's prime?

At or below welterweight?

 

good topic........

 

I'd also like to add.... Leonard-Norris and Curry-Norris. Terry was one helluva fighter dont get me wrong, but Leonard & Curry in thier respective primes were a level ahead of him, and woulda stopped Norris on thier best days, especially Leonard!

How bout Julian Jackson & Verno Philips? Theres no doubt at all, had Philips faced a prime Jackson, he'd be just another brutal KO victim of The Hawk.

 

I think at 147 a prime DLH could have beaten Floyd. But at 135 & 140 I'd pick Floyd in another close decision.

 

Pacquiao-Morales II and III. :stir: ::

 

Morales-Raheem? Morales-Diaz?

 

Any fight where my favorite fighter lost.

 

Prime DLH woulda murdered Pretty Boy. Even a shot DLH was a big task for the tip tapper.

 

Muhammad Ali-Earnie Shavers: Prime Ali wouldn't have needed a gift.

Pernell Whitaker-Felix Trinidad: Whitaker was better at lower weight classes than 147, but I feel the Whitaker of 93-94 wins a close decision over Whitaker. Tito always would have given Whitaker a tough fight though.

Roberto Duran-Vinny Pazienza

 

What about an early 00s version of Shane Mosley against Miguel Cotto?

 

Yup. Thats another. Today's version of Shane was able to win 4-5 rounds against Cotto, and get him in trouble late. I definitely think that the 00-01 Shane beats today's Cotto convincingly. And that Mosley would beat the shit outta Margarito.

 

I agree against a prime mayweather at super feather, delahoya gets stopped

 

a prime Mosley never beat the shit ouf of anybody as good as Cotto.

the best he did was clearly beat DLH but far from an ass whipping

I only saw a prime Mosley destroy scrubs never an elite fighter.

 

Cotto was never in anything close to trouble in that fight and he won no more than four rounds. Two of which Cotto was more than happy to give away by playing with Shane.

Mosley looked lost in that fight. Something that had absolutely nothing to do with age and a hell of alot to do with Miguel Cotto's strength and body punching.

 

Gotta disagree with you. Some of it DID have to with Cotto, but alot had to do with age. Cotto was actually beating Shane to the punch, and looking faster. Granted, Cotto is quick, but he wouldnt have beaten a prime Shane to the punch like that IMO. Prime Mosley would have been a whole lot more active, woulda put together more combinations, and would have been harder for Cotto to hit. Dont get me wrong, Cotto still gives a prime Shane hell, but I think Mosley on his best way is a bit too quick for Cotto. In my humble opinion.

 

.....

Mosley looked old as hell against Cotto. Slower than normal and ponderous. I'd pick a prime Mosley to beat Cotto in a heartbeat. As it was Mosley won 4-5 rounds.

 

I don't neccessarily think Cotto was beating Shane to the punch, in as muh as he was just getting off first and he made a conscious effort early in the fight to counter Mosley's jab. It was Miguel's timing more than anything, which once again exposed Shane's lack of true orthodox boxing technique.

I always viewed Shane as a skilled brawler. A guy who's speed was completely masking of the fact that he did not rely on a jab, a counter punch or movement to take full advantage of his gifts. He was an offensive fighter, with massive holes in his defense, bled from sloppy offensive technique. Given the right opponents, I believe those mistakes are going to be made when he was 25 or 35.

Shane was never a hard man to find and one thing he never took well, is a body shot and nobody has thrown them like Cotto in the past 20 years.

 

Both of :mj: ´czewskis losses.

 

agREED.

 

I agree that Shane has always been a skilled brawler with speed. But its speed that was always his main asset, and its declined in recent years. Its not hard to do the math. An over the hill Shane was able to legitmately win 4 rounds against Cotto, its only stands to reason that a prime Mosley could have done better. It wouldnt have been as easy for Cotto to time a prime Shane, and with his jab I could see a prime Shane having the speed to counter over it with right hands. Prime Mosley beats Cotto by 7-5, or 8-4 decision, in my mind.

 

There are so many fights that fit in this topic...but here are some off the top of my head.

Holmes - ALi: Holmes was a great heavy, but a Prime Ali was the greatest heavy ever. Ali by decision in a good fight.
Berbick - Ali: Berbick is lucky to win a round before being stopped.
Norton - LeDoux: Official result was a draw, rather than a loss, but Norton would have killed LeDoux a few years earlier.
Frazier - Cummings: See Norton-LeDoux
Curry & Norris - Leonard: Norris was a good fighter, but not quite in the league of these two.
Camacho - Leonard: This fight would never happen with Leonard in his prime
Hatton - Tzysu: A prime Tzysu chops up Hatton.
Spinks - Holmes: A prime Holmes crushes Spinks without too much difficulty.
Tzysu - Chavez: Much more competitive than many would think, but Chavez gets the win.
Williams & McBride - Tyson: Tyson handles these two with ease, but he loses to Lewis and Holyfield in more competitive fights.
Tyson - Thomas: Don't know if Pinky gets the win, but a fight against a Prime Thomas would have been much more difficult for Tyson than the one that actually took place.
Qawi - Saad Muhammed: This fight would have been a war, but I would take Saad in his prime.
Norris - Mugabi: A prime "Beast" cracks Norris' China Chin.
Taylor - Hopkins: Prime Hopkins by a mile
Tarver/Johnson - Jones: Jones in a tough one against Tarver and with ease against Johnson

Sanders/Purity/Brewster vs. Klitschko - Oh, wait...Wlad was in his prime for those fights.::

Also...

Toney, Byrd, Ruiz, etc... - Holyfield
Cooney - Lyle/Norton
Calzaghe - Hopkins
Mayweather - DLH
DLH - Whitaker
Trinidad - Whitaker
Stacy - Napoles
All of Aaron Pryor's losses
Laing - Duran
Hilton - Benitez
Marciano - Louis
Marciano - Charles