Fights where the outcome woulda been different if the guy was prime.

big task?

Floyd clearly won and even stunned DLH.. who was much BIGGER

a prime DLH and Prime Floyd.. I think Floyd schools him

 

I would take Qawi over any Saad.

 

I like Qawi, but I think he gets a tad overrated sometimes. Saad was a better fighter earlier in his career than he was from the Qawi fights and after.

 

Adding a couple to the list:

Vargas-Mayorga: Prime Vargas would've handled Mayorga convincingly.

Hatton-Philips: I think a motivated late 90's Philips woulda knocked Ricky out. Hell, the 40 year old Philips had Hatton wobbled at one point.

Ouma-Bundrage: I dunno what the hell happened to Kassim, he burnt out so quickly. A few years ago he woulda handled K9 with ease.

Chavez-Randall: Prime Julio woulda stopped Randall late.

Vargas-Quartey: I think a more active, and younger Ike would have beaten Vargas, though not easily.

Johnston-Harris: Prime Stevie would've done a number on Viv. He also would've outboxed Edner Cherry very easily.

Lewis-Vitali: Lummox won the fight anyway, but a younger Lewis in better shape woulda destroyed the Tinman within 3 rounds and left no doubt.

Bowe-Golota: Golota had the tools to always give Bowe trouble, but I think the 92 Bowe would have eventually overwhelmed Golota and knocked him out.

Holy-Toney: I love James, but he would NOT have beaten a prime Holy at heavyweight.

 

True, but I think Qawi always had the chin to handle Saad's heat, and his strength and workrate would always be too much for Saad. Of course, we'll never know for sure.

Also, Qawi isnt overrated. He's hardly even talked about. Perhaps if you compare him to Frazier you're overrating him, but he was still one helluva fighter.

 

I don't know about that. Marvin Johnson had the same kind of strength and workrate that Qawi did and Saad took care of him twice. And Saad had ridiculous stamina in the championship rounds.

Like you said, we'll never know, but I do know Saad was a much better and tougher fighter earlier in his career than he was at the time of Qawi fights and after and it certainly isn't a stretch to see Saad's performance improve significantly if the fight took place while he was still at his best.

 

Marvin Johnson didnt have Qawi's chin though.

 

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with any of these, but in each fight, you can make a case where the victor was no closer to his prime than the loser. Randall's the only dicey one - but even he was fairly deep into his career by the time he fought Chavez, just that he was a well-kept secret.

 

True, but Johnson was not exactly a cream puff, either. Qawi's chin might allow him to survive where Johnson was stopped, but I don't see him outtoughing a prime Saad down the stretch. I think Saad's deteriorating physical skills made Qawi look like more of a monster than he really was. Don't forget...right after the Qawi fights, Saad was stoppped in 3 by a light-hitting journeyman in Eric Winbush, who had a total of 3 stoppage wins heading into the Saad fight.

 

Disagree

Both guys were PRIME for this fight, and Vargas boxed the shit out of Quartey.

 

I don't know, the fight was at 154 and Quartey had become very inactive after the Lopez fight.

I'm not sure it changes the outcome, or that Quartey was that far removed from his prime, but I wouldn't say he was in it.

 

I think Toney-Holyfield at heavyweight may depend on when you think both started taking steroids and whether they'd both be allowed to take them for their mythical match-up.::

For this exercise, though, perhaps you could just take their cruiserweight versions.

 

Look at the Quartey from the Vargas fight, the Quartey of the mid 90's and tell me there the same fighter. There not.

Watch the Quartey that KO'd Espana. THATS a prime Quartey.

 

That Quartey was fighting Espana, not Vargas. Also it was at 147.

 

Toney was past it as well, but James' prime was at 160-168. Had he moved up to heavy, or even cruiser in his prime, I cant see him beating a prime Holy.

As for Vargas-Mayorga, Vargas was ALOT more past his prime than Mayorga. Mayorga's prime ended in 2004 when Tito beat his ass. Nando's prime ended in 2000 when Tito beat his ass. I think the first Mosley fight took ALL the rest outta Vargas, cause in the Mosley rematch he was COMPLETELY shot.

Take the 00 Vargas vs the 03 Mayorga, and I'll take Nando by clear decision.

And it COULD be argued that Randall on the night he beat Chavez ALWAYS gives Julio hell, but I'd take the Chavez that beat Taylor, and Mayweather to grind down Randall and either stop him, or win a UD.

 

Heres some fights where the results WOULDNT change if the guy was prime:

Mosley-Vargas: Even though Vargas was more past it then Shane, even at thier respective primes I'd still pick Mosley. He would have ALWAYS had a big handspeed edge on Vargas, and it would have been the differance.

Lewis-Holy: As much as I hate Lummox, he'd be style problem for even a prime Evander. Maybe a prime Holy beats him, but I think Lummox still beats him by close decision.

Tyson-Holmes: ALOT of people will disagree with this one, but I dont care. Tyson KO's even a prime Holmes, it would just take longer. Snipes, and Shavers had Holmes almost out in his prime, but those guys werent the finishers Tyson was. I say Tyson KO's a prime Holmes in 7-8 rounds, but I'm sure many will disagree.

DLH-Vargas: Even though Vargas was past it when DLH beat him, Oscar was slightly past it himself. Prime for prime, Goldie still wins.

Jones-Hill: Virgil was past it, but it wouldnt have mattered. Roy easily beats him at any point in Hill's career.

Others?

 

Your second statement is kind of the point, Scotch.

 

I dont think it was the weight that hurt Quartey against Vargas, it was in the inactivity.

 

Shane looked gassed during the middle rounds but he came on strong and Cotto was the one looking faded in last few rounds.

 

Considering tht Quartey was a fighter who's strength was almost as important as his jab, I'd say it played a huge role in the fight.

 

Hilarious out of all the picks for Hopkins over Calzaghe::

 

And whats so hilarious about it? Joe beat a 43 year old, semi-retired Hopkins... and though he won it clearly, Hopkins did have some success. Whats so hilarious to suggest that an active, younger Hopkins of 7 years ago beats Joe?

Prime Hopkins owns Joe.

I'm sure after Calz beats RJ, they'll be people saying that Joe beats a prime Roy as well. Which would be hilarious.

 

Fuck no. A prime Tyson couldn't beat weak ass Douglas.

 

You also forget that Calzaghe was old and past HIS PRIME himself! Oh I forgot,now that Bhop actually lost to him,he was definatley "Too Old" and "Semi Retired":crying:

Boxing fans at their best right their::

Calzaghe has never been close to ever losing a fight. Sure his comp was never that great for the early part of his career. But Calzaghe would of fucked any version of Hopkins up. You also seem to forget that Hopkins was trying to quit like a bitch,not once but twice in their fight. Oh that's right,he was "43" and "Semi Retired"ld:

It's ridiculous how many boxing fans still underrate just how great Calzaghe really is.

 

I think Holmes beats Tyson prime for prime.

 

Kinda what it comes down to in a lot of cases...

 

Im not sure if this is a deliberate attempt to sound like a fool, but just in case its not; do you understand how foolish you sound right here?

Calzaghe didn't even fuck the final version of Bernard Hopkins up, so what grounds is there to believe he'd do even better with a physically superior Hopkins?

And plenty will argue that not only did Calzaghe come close to losing this fight (or that he DID lose it), but the argument for Robin Reid is also a popular one. Perhaps some revision onthese topics are neccessary before we move forward.

 

Where is Calzaghe-Hopkins Prime vs. Prime happening...at super middleweight or light heavyweight?

 

Perhaps the statement should be along the lines of "more prime vs more prime", otherwise the details of this contest and the process of actually manouvering each combatant into the ring would prove most difficult.

 

True Roy haters would maybe say as such,..but even Calzaghe admits that a peak Roy was his superior.

But in regards to the extremely overrated Bernard "Greater than Marvin Hagler" Hopkins, if he was more 'active' in fights, he would in turn leave himself more 'open'..for counter punches, which would be a DREAM COME TRUE to all who fight him these days..........as it is, this 'version', backs up for entire fights, and when his opponent HAS TO LEAD to MAKE THE FIGHT, he or she MUST walk in to the fringe of his timing and clinching range, over and over again... Hopkins can fight into his 50's with this cowardly conservative style, he's an overrated piece of eye searing, spoiling shit, who only ever 'stalked' or 'pressured' real middleweights his entire career, if he fights again, hopefully his opponent, stands completely still, so the referee motions Hopkins to come in and fight or face disqualification :crafty:.