REcent photos of Miguel Cotto: LOOKS STRONGER THAN EVER!

I thought he showed it against Antonio Diaz...and did he not show it against Cintron?

 

Yeah, he walked through some serious bombs in the Cintron rematch.

 

Toughness...but not guts/determination. A ten-year champ who was involved in a war nearly every time out unless he put you away early. Maybe you should pull out those fights you saw that you "can't remember when." You can start with Danny Perez.

I won't debate the Williams fight. You like inventing scores to suit you, like saying Hops won only three rounds against Calzaghe and Margarito won only three against Williams.

Whatever you say, man.

 

too bad with all this.. he is going to get battered from pillar to post like a drunken mexican street bum

 

That's just how it is, Hopkins won the first 3 rounds and possibly the 10th, and that's that. Scoring any other round for Nard would be Julie lederman esque. And I was rooting for the bastard too, wanting to give him the rounds. He got outlanded and outslicked in every other round, forced to fight on the backfoot, and forced to do not very much at all.

In fact that fucktard that wrote that "do I need glasses" article where he scored the fight for hopkins is generally regarded here as one of the worst articles ever. That should give you an idea of the sort of moron that thinks hopkins won that fight.

By the way, who even mentioned scoring? All I said is marge didn't really do much for the first 8 rounds. Which is true, don't tell me you didn't think marge looked dull and lethargic for the first 2 thirds of that fight? I remember it very, very clearly, because I had a vested interest in Marge winning.

For some reason I was pretty sure marge would beat williams.

If marge had this huge amount of guts and determination, he woudn't have been discouraged by williams, just in the same way as if Diaz was as gutsy as people thought, he wouldn't have been discouraged and dominated by Campbell.

Neil - there is a pretty huge difference actually, surely you know this?

Toughness is the ability to take punishment. Guts and determination is the ability to fight through adversity and come back when hurt etc, and just keep on fighting no matter what.

I'll list 2 prime examples - Tua and Vargas.

Tua is incredibly tough. He can really take a lot of punishment. Does that mean he is gutsy and determined? Does it fuck. He bitched out against lewis for example, showed no heart or guts, but despite that, he is incredibly tough, and it's that reason he has never been KO'd as a pro.

Vargas - not particularly tough at all. Can't take a hard single shot, and can't really take sustained punishment either. But despite that, he is as gutsy and determined as they come. He won't stop fighting. Even after being bludgeoned against Tito, not having his legs under him, and barely knowing where he was, he still came forward in the 12th round and tried to fight.

As you can see, there is a big difference, toughness and guts are not the same thing.

Marge is tough, but lacks guts.

 

I think Marge is tough and what that will help him do is absorb a long long beating.. before being stopped..

 

Cotto doesn't get enough credit for being an amazingly accurate puncher. I think that will be the deciding factor in this fight.

 

Where's your proof he lacks guts? I mean, how can you even make such an assertion? Ridiculous....

 

well margarito basically gutted out the clottey fight on determination. he went into the fight with an ankle injury. both guys suffered hand injuries, then one guy dealt with the adversity, kept punching and gutted out the victory.

 

I'm one of the biggest Margarito haters on this forum, but even I dont think that Tony lacks heart. He'll lose the Cotto fight, but I dont think he'll ever stop coming forward and trying to win. He'll just be in with a guy who's plain better than him.

If you wanna talk about a pressure fighter with questionable heart, look no further than the baby cow Juan Diaz, who basically was intimidated and gave up late vs Campbell.

 

Yeah I used baby cow as an analogy, he is ABSOLUTELY a pressure fighter that lacks heart.

I shall say, Marge does have more guts than baby cow, for sure.

Kenneth - it's mainly based on the williams fight. In the face of williams aggression, and simply being attacked like nobody else has tried, he lost courage. He looked outright discouraged until late on.

And for those that are citing the cintron rematch - what? Like I said, marge is tough, he can take a shit, he didn't NEED to show any heart in that fight, because at no point was he hurt, and at no point was he being beaten up. He just kicked cintron's arse like before, hardly a showing of heart there. That was just a demonstration of his toughness and ability to take a shot.

 

this is quite amusing. a message boarder calling margarito is just a tough guy w/ no guts or determination.

 

I already referred a fight to you where he showed "guts."

Second, you know Margarito has no guts because he lost courage against Williams? Can you tell me at what point he did that and how that showed in the following rounds?

 

Sure I can, it showed in the very first round, margarito looked a little surprised and discouraged by williams' aggression and fairly relentless attack.

It showed in the following rounds by a severely diminished workrate, and reluctance to attack Williams.

He essentially looked surprised and discouraged VS williams, he didn't know what to do with Tall Paul#s non stop attack, and he didn't have the guts to retaliate in kind, which is exactly what someone like Morales or Pacman would have done. They would have fought back ferociously, Marge didn't, and he is meant to be an aggressive pressure fighter. In fact that's all he is, because he doesn't have the boxing ability and skill of a Morales or Pacquiao.

 

Why is it amusing? Am I saying that I have more guts and determination than Marge?

No, of course I'm not, I'm judging Marge in the context of a world class fighter, don't be a fucking tool.

 

So...

Margarito lost courage in the first round and never regained it...

And he didn't have the guys to retaliate.

How in the world did he ever win a round?

 

By finding some courage/desperation, when he started fighting in the last 3rd of the fight.

 

you're an idiot. how does a world class guy win tough fights against world class competitors without any heart or determination? go choke on a cow dick.

 

That's a little much.

 

you guys will be shocked when tony punishes cotto like a back-talking bitch.

 

Cotto shows alot of heart and determination when he, and I quote Illuminati,.. "cruises,..and, uses smart skills"... to sprint off the remaining rounds against the likes of Lovemore N'dou,...- :: not even Paulie runs from him.

 

You're the idiot, you fucking plank. Are we not allowed to criticise any boxers now because we're messahe board posters?

Pro boxers are judged to a different standard, fighting is their job, it's what they do.

Who said he has no heart or determination? Are you fucking retarded? I said he doesn't have as much guts and determination as people think, he is a little lacking in heart and guts.

Like I said, if he was as gutsy as some of you idiots make out, he would have fucking come at Tall Paul hammer and tong in the face of Paul's relentless attack, which is EXACTLY what someone like Morales, Chico or Pacman would do, because they have HUGE amounts of guts.

Marge doesn't, simple as that, until he got some courage late on, he pretty much bitched up against Tall Paul, he didn't have the balls to attack Williams with any kind of ferocity.

Williams' workrate and aggression basically tamed marge.

It's easy to show determination against the antonio diaz's of the boxing world.

By the way Joony, are you looking forward to Manny splattering Valero around the ring? :mj:

 

No that is showing alot of ring smarts...if you are winning/or have won the fight...why risk it?

Cotto SKILLS allow him to do that.....

 

It's the beach, makes him feel all hot and sweaty for Cotto.

 

Cotto is about 50x the fighter now than he was when he fought Ndou.

 

Hmmm...now that you mention it, Margarito also failed to show heart and determination in his two bouts with Daniel Santos regardless of what we think of Santos and the outcomes.

 

The beauty of it is, we only have to go as far back as his very last 'big' fight with old Shane, in that scrap, 'someone' couldn't take the heat no more, and decided to run, you would think it would be the older guy with quicker hands?... nup......

Here's what's happenned, the greatest hypnotist in the game is a fighter by the name of Zab Judah. For now, I think he's responsible lately for the hard arse compact unstoppable bulldozer image that Cotto has been affiliated with, he looked like such a force in that fight, "DURAN!!,... it's ROBERTO DURAN!!"...was an element drawn from the commotion, and it's stuck,.. but you see,.. Zab made Carlos Baldomir a millionaire, and an opponent worthy of fighter of the year honours when defeated,..that's what Zab does, he's a fucking 'super star' maker :notallthere:, ...and I think you'll learn watching Cotto literally sprinting late in his next fight Xplosive.

 

So he DID have the guts/courage to retaliate, well...according to you only in the championship rounds. Hmm...you seem confused.

Hey so did you ever catch that Perez fight? How about the second Santos fight? I'd love to hear you explain how "he showed no courage, oh wait a lil courage there...no, now it's no courage...well, a little later..."

:notallthere:

 

I agree. Cotto is a much better fighter now then the Ndou version.:mj:

 

Cotto would beat Ndou into a lump of clay right now.:kidcool: