Yeah, that's why MMA gyms primarly teach boxing ( and Muay Thai ) as stand up style and not the mysterious MMA standup that you keep talking about and are the only one to know what it's supposed to mean.
If you can't see the difference between boxing and MMA standup, you're just not paying attention. TFK
You act like MMA fighters are only average at every discipline. As I said previously, you take a guy like Penn that has decent boxing skills combined with being one of the most accomplished Jiu-Jitsu guys on the planet and you have an Engineer that is also a good handyman. Not just a handyman. Godfather really summed it up though. Put Fedor in a room with any HW boxer alive and Fedor has them begging for mercy within 3 minutes. Now who would be the 'handyman' again in your analogy????
such a weird thing to compare.. but.. I agree that the BOXER is just all aroudn more polished.. the "ART" is there more.. Boxing has a LONG LONG history and guys that are top sometimes start at 6-7 years old.. slipping, parry, subtle defense as well as awesome punching offense.. boxing is just awesome MMA guys like Chuck who KO people.. they do so not because of gloves... they do so because they are fighting wrestlers or brawlers who have no idea how to defend themselves..
Exactly. These guys arent just some karate Kid wannabe's that have a yellow belt in Karate. They spend their whole Lives mastering the art of fighting. To be a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu is no easy accomplishment. Check out Rickson Gracie
No shit. Everyone is talking about Anderson Silva failing at boxing and then "settling" on MMA because it's easier. Bull shit. Silva chose MMA because his background is Muay Thai and JJ. He chose a sport that allowed him to utilize his training.
ok.. good point.. maybe guys like Fedor or Silva are up there with boxers... but I'm not sure... not yet anyway
And just because MMA doesnt get paid as much as boxing, doesnt make it easier. Its not easy to be elite in Martial Arts. There are way more All time greats in boxing than fighting.
Guys like Fedor and silva are passed boxers. They are passed Elite boxers. You name any boxer in history, and i got Fedor beating them in less than 3 minutes. And I LOVE boxing. But i have done BOTH and know the difference.
what do you m ean "beaating" ?? :laughing: we are not talking about fighting no rules.. obviously the MMA guy holds advantage here.. I'm talking about just the level of skill and the "ART" of it.. Boxing is more more refined
What I love is that boxing fans (myself included) talk about the refinement, the technique, the subtle nuances of the sport. Yet ask most to name their favorite bout and it's almost unanimously a blood and guts brawl like Chico-Castillo or Gatti-Ward... Let's be honest for half a second. Combat sports appeal to our blood lust. We like seeing who is the most dominant and who can inflict the most damage. We want to see devastation not pitter pat points decisions. Sure it's neat to see a Pernell Whitaker avoid shots, but it's far more exciting to see a Mike Tyson render someone into a near vegetable state. We want to see who is the baddest dude. MMA fighters are the 'badder' dudes.
Right, but many prefer Castillo/Corrales to Gatti/Ward because the skill level was much higher. Also, how can you bring up two fights like that and come to the conclusion that MMA fighters are badder dudes?
if you took ONE martial art and went through it's history.. ok.. when you take them and mix and match them.. you do not have the same pedigre.. I will say from personal experience.. I trained in martial arts since I was knee high to a grasshopper.. then into MMA some.. then I met a friend of a friend who was a pro boxer.. and his strikeing abilty, slipping, etc.. was just in another straospehere.. just awesome
Simple. Because as bad as those dudes were, they wouldn't last an MMA round with Urijah Faber....:: If you think Gatti bled like a stuck pig in a boxing ring, let him catch a few Kenny Florian elbows and watch the river flow. But the real point was directed at those that talk about loving the refined skill and technique of boxing. I was just calling bullshit.
You'd say the exact same thing if you ever got tangled up with a Jiu-Jitsu blackbelt.. It's just awesome. And by the way, a guy like BJ Penn isn't watering down any martial art. He is a JJ expert. It just so happens he also has other skills as well. That doesn't diminish his level of JJ.
yeah.. you are prolly right.. good point.. I have worked with some excellent grapplers.. but for me.. in my own mind.. it's just not as impressive:dunno:
That's what I was thinking, you can't lump those 2 in the same sentence, and if you consider them similar, you simply don't know much about boxing. Corrales - Castillo was more similar to Morales - Barrera 1 than Gatti - Ward. I don't think Gatti - Ward is a great fight, it's a couple of notches above a club fight. Corrales - Castillo was an inside fighting war, with a huge amount of skill on display. Same with Morales - Barrera 1, those 2 fights are not comparable in any way to gatti and ward staggering around the ring throwing haymakers at each other.
Oh really? So Castillo-Corrales was a great fight because of all the technique and skill on display? Or was it because of the ability to take punishment and keep coming. Or was it because they absolutely beat the shit out of each other? On fight night there wasn't a mother fucker around saying "Wow, look at Castillo's footwork on the inside. Wow, look at how Corrales makes him miss with great defense." The skill primarily on display was both guy's ability to get hit more and more with each passing round. Call it what you want, but both fights are appealing because the combatants beat the living shit out of each other. And Castillo-Corrales isn't the better fight of the two because of their skill. It was the better fight because they battered each other to far greater degree.
Exactly, JJ is unbelievable. I have rolled with a Blue belt and his techique is ability was crazy. I would love to roll with a black belt on day. Its like wrestling with a spider. And the next thing you know, you are caught in some hold. :bears:
Its claled Mixed Martial Arts because there is so many different styles that compete. Not because you know a mixture of different Martial Arts. You dont have to even know lots of styles. Look at Jackson. Or look at Gracie.
Castillo and Carrales werent exactly Elite Skillful fighters. That fight was great because they stood still and slugged. There was no boxing in that fight.
Excellent point BJ Penn is a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu world champion and to make it even more interesting he got his black belt in 3 years which is amazing considering it usually takes 5 years minimum. So I agree with your take that he is pretty much already an engineer who is a handyman as well.
Corrales Vs Castillo was great because it had BOTH factors. It was extremely violent, and I love violence. But it was between 2 skilled attacking fighters, and I love skill too. Violent yes, but this was supreme, high caliber violence. It was a brutal, back and forth battle where they beat the shit out of each other, BUT it was being dished out by 2 skilled fighting machines, with brilliant punching technique, accuracy, timing, variety etc. Same guys for Morales and Barrera, AND Vazquez - Marquez. Ultra violent fights contested between skilled fighting machines. If you can't see the difference between those fights and Gatti - Ward you're fucking insane, and should really stick to MMA. I'm not trying to be offensive, but it's true, if you can't see the difference.
You don't have to be up on your toes jabbing and potshotting to be skilled. Both corrales and castillo have excellent skill for attacking fighters, timing, accuracy, punch repertoire, feints etc. And punching technique, especially Corrales. His counter left hook is picture perfect, and is one of the best short range punchers I've ever seen. They are both 100 times more skilled than Gatti and Ward. As are Morales, Barrera, Vazquez and Marquez.
.... Castillo and Corrales were both excellent infighters. 1 more so because of talent (Corrales) and the other so because of tecnique (Castillo). I didn't realize there's no skill in infighting. Wow there's some ignorant shit posted in this thread. :doh:
