GREG LEON'S ADVISOR GROUP BLOWS IT FOR ALLAN GREEN

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Green takes bad advice, turns down biggest payday
Thursday, July 17, 2008 | Print Entry
Posted by Dan Rafael

While the headache-inducing search for a fall opponent for middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik continues, one guy who won't be challenging him is Allan Green, who apparently graduated magna cum laude from the Winky Wright School of Dealmaking.

That means he grossly priced himself out of the fight, just another poor decision by a fighter who seems to do nothing but make poor decisions of late.

After his last fight, an ESPN2 win against Rubin Williams on Jan. 4, Green was supposed to return Feb. 29 to face faded Antwun Echols. Instead, Green pulled out at the last minute without explanation. That boneheaded decision infuriated fight organizers, ESPN and Green's own team, and resulted in a suspension and lots of bad publicity.

Then Green, who thinks he's a superstar but has never won a big fight, declared that he would no longer fight on ESPN2 -- a network that has featured him numerous times -- because he deserved the HBO or Showtime limelight. Of course, Green apparently forgot that he got a chance to fight on a Miguel Cotto card on HBO in March 2007 and blew it big-time when he looked horrible losing a clear decision to Edison Miranda.

And now, with no prospect for a fight of consequence, Green was offered a shot at Pavlik on HBO on Sept. 27 in Atlantic City, N.J., according to Pavlik promoter Bob Arum and Green promoter Tony Holden.

Mind you, Green, who would have moved down in weight, had done nothing whatsoever to deserve the shot other than be available. Even without earning the fight, it might have been interesting. I certainly would give Green a chance to win if the right Green showed up.

You'd think Green would have treated the opportunity like it was manna from heaven.

Guess we'll never know how he would have done because he turned down a whopping $450,000 (plus training expenses) for the opportunity. Who turns that kind of money down -- by far Green's biggest payday -- for a free shot at the title in a fight he can win? And who turns it down in this economy? Allan Green, who recently had to get help from Holden to pay his rent, does.

When talks for Pavlik to face Paul Williams or Wright bogged down (they still are), Arum started talking to Holden, who has treated Green like family and done a masterful job guiding his career (even though Green doesn't seem very appreciative).

Like any negotiation, each side threw out numbers and they went from there. Holden said he asked for $750,000. Eventually, he and Arum settled on $450,000. Holden also said he got the fight without having to give Arum options on any of Green's future fights in the event he won (with the exception of a rematch). That's pretty impressive. It should be noted that Pavlik's last opponent, Gary Lockett, made just $250,000 for their fight last month.

Next Holden told Arum he would take the offer to Green for his approval, which should have been a no-brainer. Pretty simple, right? Sure, until an inexperienced adviser gets involved, which is exactly what happened.

Green had recently started working with neophyte Greg Leon, who convinced Green that they should have asked for more than $1 million, a number so preposterous for that fight that it would be funny if it wasn't true. That's when Arum, Holden and Leon got on a three-way telephone call, one Holden said he advised Leon against doing. During the call, Leon angered and disrespected Arum to such an extent that he hung up the phone.

"Bob and I have done millions of dollars worth of deals over the years. We respect each other and have worked well together, and we had a deal," Holden said. "The adviser got on the phone with me and Bob, and it was a disrespectful conversation, and Bob hung up."

Holden said after the call Leon phoned him and said Green would take the offer.

But it was too late.

"I called Bob back, and the offer was off the table. Bob told me, 'I'll never be disrespected like that again,'" said Holden, who added that he had no hard feelings toward Arum.

Arum, so incensed, said he instructed his receptionist not to take Leon's repeated calls.

"They got this genius adviser who doesn't know what the [expletive] he's doing," Arum said. "They were pretty stupid. What they asked for was stupid, so the offer is off the table. You get a guy like Tony Holden, who knows the business, so what the hell does [Green] need that moron who doesn't know the business as a so-called adviser? That so-called adviser gave him bad advice."

Green, however, took it. It was another poor decision, one that cost him a lot of money and a shot at the middleweight championship.

 

GREG'S RESPONSE:

FAT MAN GOT IT ALL WRONG: THE TRUTH ABOUT PAVLIK-GREEN
By G. Leon

Pavlik-Hopkins PPV Oct 18? Mosley-Mayorga getting moved to September 27?
Dan Rafael's latest blog on ESPN features a scathing attack on myself and world class super middleweight Allan Green that is based on lies. Saying this story is filled with holes the size of Rafael, would be too kind. It is completely fictional. ESPN.com should be ashamed for running an article written by somebody, who must've graduated magna cum laude from the Forget about fact checking school of journalism. First of all, neither Allan Green nor myself ever turned down a fight with Kelly Pavlik. Want the TRUTH, here's how the story goes.

Tony Holden contacted Allan Green to say he was working on something big that he was "pretty far along with." The next day Mr. Holden told me that fight was Kelly Pavlik. Later that evening I spoke with the Bobfather to discuss the fight.

I was surprised that it hadn't been brought to his attention. I was even more surprised when he told me that he and Tony Holden hadn't spoken for a year.

I then asked Arum what he thought about the fight. He didn't like it. I explained to him why I felt it would make sense. Our conversation concluded with him telling me that he would speak to Holden the following morning. Boxingtalk readers should be fully aware of the fact that over the years Arum and I have built up a solid relationship. Along with Don King and Charles Muniz, I consider the Bobfather as one of my three mentors in the boxing business, so disrespecting him as Fat Man Scoopless latest blog indicates is false.

Shortly thereafter I spoke with Holden and explained to him in full detail my conversation with Arum. There were two things I instructed Holden to do: get me on the phone when he speaks with Arum and most importantly, let him make the first offer. "I know how he operates, he's going to ask you what you want, so let him make the first offer."

Based on the numbers previously Pavlik potentials were offered I told Holden he should be able to get $750,000 as a package deal. He agreed. I told him if you and Arum are at a stalemate over who wants to make the first offer, start at a million and work your way down to $750,000.

Here are some interesting facts before we move on:
Sergio Mora was offered more than $1M for the fight.
Joe Greene's people were offered $750,000 for the fight
Giovanni Lorenzo had been offered $750,000 before Pavlik landed on Lockett.
And you'll never believe what I've heard unknown Gary Lockett's people got for flying across the pond to pick up a paycheck. I can't confirm that number, so we'll leave it alone.

The next day Holden calls me and tells me he spoke to Arum and things didn't go too well. I asked what happened. He said, "Arum asked me what we wanted. I told him $750,000 is fair and he came back with $400,000 and we have another call set up for tomorrow morning."

I told him that was a low offer, I think we can get more money out him and I want to be on that next phone call tomorrow morning. The next morning Holden calls me again and tells me he spoke with Arum and got him up to $450,000. At this point I asked him why he didn't get me on the phone for the call, he said he tried to call me, but couldn't get me on the phone.

Do you really think I'm making myself unavailable or ignoring such a call in the middle of the day?

I told him I don't think we should take it just yet, if you got another 50k in two minutes what makes you think we can't get anymore? He didn't think we were getting anything else at that point. For the third time, I told him I wanted to be on a three way call with Arum.

We finally get the three way going and here's how that went. Bob says, hello. Tony says, "hello I'm on with Greg, I say hello. Bob says yeah. I say, "Bobfather, 450? "in a soft curious tone that can in no way be deemed disrespectful. He hangs up. That was it.

Called him back, got hung up on as soon as I said hello. Tried calling a few more times, no luck. Who was being disrespectful? Is this how the Bobfather negotiates? This marked the first two times in over four years that Arum has hung up on me. Could it be that he's given me too many off the record lessons and too much inside information about previous offers that he doesn't want to deal with me and would prefer to deal with Holden who thought it was a good idea to answer Bob's, 'so how much you want proposition?

Arum was able to convince the experienced Holden, that merely calling him the Bobfather was the most direspected he's ever been in his whole life. I tried to put him on to game by informing him that Arum and I have been discussing making Bobfather Boxingtalk shirts and selling them on the site to donate money to boxing charities. In short, I was trying to put him on to how Arum operates, but it was tough for the Oklahoma based promoter to keep up.

My answer to Arum's intial question would have been something like, as much as you're willing to spend. You have the budget, you have the champion, you have the HBO date and you'll be the promoter in charge, so you tell me. Anything but a number would have been a better OPENING answer, but what do I know?

WITHIN AN HOUR of the conference call, I had already spoken to Allan and told him we might not get any more money. I think we should take the fight, not due to Holden's keen negotiating skills, due to the fact that regardless of what we get for this fight, this is an opportunity to become a multi-millionaire and have a market value that exeeds our fan base.

Allan agreed. I immediately called Tony and told him we're going to take it for the $450,000. Try to get some training expenses if you can, but we're taking the fight. Arum and Holden hadn't spoken to each other in the hour that passed between getting hung up on and me telling Holden we accept the fight.

Why Tony Holden would make some of the remarks he made publicly is beyond me. He is obviously offended that Allan felt he needed some help. During our discussions, he is quick to point out how experienced he is, and in a sarcastic tone, refer to all of my experience. I might not be as old as Mr. Holden, but last time I checked it's taken me one year to represent more than triple the amount of fighters he currently does.

Another interesting fact you should know is that HBO NEVER ACCEPTED OR APPROVED ALLAN GREEN. You'll notice Rafael's article lacks any quotes from HBO, I challenge him to get them on the record saying Allan Green was at any point during all of this, accepted or approved by the network.

Tony Holden not speaking with HBO or Arum about the fight he was "pretty far along on" before I spoke to Arum is another interesting fact.

ALLAN GREEN NEVER TURNED THIS FIGHT DOWN. WE HAVE BEEN, AND STILL ARE READY TO SIGN A CONTRACT FOR $450,000. ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS SEND IT AND IT WILL BE SIGNED IMMEDIATELY. ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS SEND IT FROM THE MOMENT IT WAS ACCEPTED AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNED IMMEDIATELY

The next several days became a matter of waiting for the Paul Willaims negotiations to fully collapse so we can get the fight as their last resort. Allan already began training early since he'd have to come down to 160 to make the fight. Don't know many boxers who begin training for fights they turned down.

As is the norm, I had spoken to the Bobfather several times during this waiting period. I told him we accept the fight for $450,000 and each converstaion was cordial. I was never told me the fight was off the table until yesterday evening, because HBO didn't want to do it. Another conversation he didn't hang up on me on. Makes sense though, why would he continue to hang up on me when we're getting with his program?

Since it looks like the Paul Williams isn't happening, HBO is currently looking at a potential Bernard Hopkins-Pavlik fight on HBO PPV October 18, moving Shane Mosley-Ricardo Mayorga to September 27 on HBO World Championship Boxing. Maybe Rafael would be up on this if he was better at fact checking.

If none of that comes to fruition, the position of Allan Green will not change. Allan is ready, willing and able to fight Kelly Pavlik on September 27, October 18 or any other date Arum can get HBO to approve him for.

After learning of Rafael's column earlier today, I quickly called the Bobfather, who hit me with the, 'what are you talking about?' I told him to read the article and call me right back, which he did. He still couldn't view the piece and accused me of having a more advanced version of the internet. I told him he's not stupid, and he should know what he said? I asked him why he would he would say that? I admit I got a bit disrespectful this time, and got hung up for good reason.

As much as Rafael hates on me-for obvious reasons starting with our appearances-I doubt that he would make up these remarks, so I guess the Bobfather was lying yesterday and lying twice more today. As much as I would love to continue to embarrass Mr. Holden, I'm going to end it here because at the end of the day, for the time being at least, we both have to work together to get Allan the fights he deserves.

Arum was unavailable when I attempted to call him back to see if he wanted to issue any retraction or apology for the false remarks he made. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_396142-->

 

ANOTHER LEON REPONSE:

A COMPLETE DISSECTION OF ESPN.COM'S FAIRY TALE!
By G. Leon

While the headache-inducing search for a fall opponent for middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik continues, one guy who won't be challenging him is Allan Green, who apparently graduated magna cum laude from the Winky Wright school of deal making. That means he grossly priced himself out of the fight, just another poor decision by a fighter who seems to do nothing, but make poor decisions of late.

Leon's Comment: False. Allan never priced himself out of a fight. It's tough not to construe his poor decisions as of late remark as a cheap shot at me.

Mind you, Green, who would have moved down in weight, had done nothing whatsoever to deserve the shot other than be available. Even without earning the fight, it might have been interesting. I certainly would give him a chance to win if the right Green showed up.

Leon's Comment: Nothing whatsoever to deserve the shot, he's not earning the fight, but you give him a good chance of winning? Which one is it?

Guess we'll never know how he would have done because he turned down a whopping $450,000 (plus training expenses) for the opportunity. Who turns that kind of money down -- by far Green's biggest payday -- for a free shot at the title in a fight he can win? And who turns it down in this economy? Allan Green, who recently had to get help from Holden to pay his rent, does.

Leon's Comment: Considering the funds that were on the table for other fights, not sure whooping is the adjective I would have used. Who turns that money down is a good question because we didn't. Rafael writes that Allan Green turned this down as though it is fact when it is absolutely false.

When talks for Pavlik to face Paul Williams or Wright bogged down (they still are), Arum started talking to Holden, who has treated Green like family and done a masterful job guiding his career (even though Green doesn't seem very appreciative).

Leon's Comment: FACT: Arum and Holden didn't speak until after I spoke to Arum. With that being said, Allan Green would tell you that I was ready to give Holden all of the credit in the world for making the fight just to keep things on the level.

Like any negotiation, each side threw out numbers and they went from there. Holden said he asked for $750,000. Eventually, he and Arum settled on $450,000. Holden also said he got the fight without having to give Arum options on any of Green's future fights in the event he won (with the exception of a rematch). That's pretty impressive. It should be noted that Pavlik's last opponent, Gary Lockett, made just $250,000 for their fight last month.

Leon's Comment: Wonder how many other promoters would have asked how much more money they'd get if they co-promoted Allan's next three fights together? Anybody else think Arum would have anted up if he got some options? Could Arum and Top Rank have been helpful to Holden and Allan? Lockett made $250,000 but what was the package offer made to his promoter? Hmmm.

Next Holden told Arum he would take the offer to Green for his approval, which should have been a no-brainer. Pretty simple, right? Sure, until an inexperienced adviser gets involved, which is exactly what happened.

Leon's Comment: Nobody from Team Green notified Arum that we weren't taking the fight. One hour passed between getting hung up on, speaking with Tony Holden, then Allan and then Holden again to tell him we're taking the fight for $450,000. ONE HOUR and nobody ever turned it down. Indicating that I botched the deal is false.

Green had recently started working with neophyte Greg Leon, who convinced Green that they should have asked for more than $1 million, a number so preposterous for that fight that it would be funny if it wasn't true. That's when Arum, Holden and Leon got on a three-way telephone call, one Holden said he advised Leon against doing. During the call, Leon angered and disrespected Arum to such an extent that he hung up the phone.

Leon's Comment: FALSE. I never convinced Green what we should ask for. I discussed with Tony what we should ask for. And I told him that we should start at a million and work our way down to $750,000. One of the few truths to Rafael's column is that Holden asked for $750,000. How did we ask Arum for more than a million when Holden started at $750? Nobody on Team Green ever asked Arum for a million. Did Holden ask for $750k because he knew that's what everybody else was being offered? See my rebuttal for a full description of how I allegedly disrespected Arum.

"Bob and I have done millions of dollars worth of deals over the years. We respect each other and have worked well together, and we had a deal," Holden said. "The adviser got on the phone with me and Bob, and it was a disrespectful conversation, and Bob hung up."

Leon's Comment: When I first discussed the fight with Arum he and Holden hadn't spoken in a year. For our promoter to view the discussion as disrespectful with me calling Arum, Bobfather, it just goes to prove how ignorant he is to the extent Arum and I have spoken. We certainly don't go a year between phone calls.

Holden said that after the call Leon phoned him and said Green would take the offer. But it was too late. "I called Bob back, and the offer was off the table. Bob told me, 'I'll never be disrespected like that again,' " said Holden, who added that he had no hard feelings toward Arum.

Leon's Comment: One hour? What other fight did Bob nail down? Paul Williams? That Bobfather knows how to pull those strings, so it's no surprise Holden has no ill feelings towards Arum.

Arum, so incensed, said he instructed his receptionist not to take Leon's repeated calls.


Leon's Comment: For like an hour. This remark is misleading since Arum and I have spoken many times since then. Not too mention we usually speak on his cell phone.

"They got this genius adviser who doesn't know what the [f---] he's doing," Arum said. "They were pretty stupid. What they asked for was stupid, so the offer is off the table. You get a guy like Tony Holden, who knows the business, so what the hell does [Green] need that moron who doesn't know the business as a so-called adviser? That so-called adviser gave him bad advice."

Leon's Comment: Arum denied this to me and then said he couldn't view this story. Here's your quote Bob. It took Monte Barrett all of :57 seconds to prove I knew what I was doing when I accepted the Tye Fields fight, not bad for a neophyte so called adviser. What bad advice did I give him Bobfather? We accepted the fight nearly two weeks ago and have been waiting for you to realize the Paul Williams fight wasn't going to happen before you sent us our contract. Then it's suddenly off the table because HBO didn't approve it. We still want the fight for the same offer we're being accused of turning down. Arum doesn't think Al Haymon knows what he's doing either so I'll take that as a compliment, because it hasn't taken long for Haymon to son the Bobfather more than once.

Green, however, took it. It was another poor decision, one that cost him a lot of money and a shot at the middleweight championship.

Leon's Comment: FALSE AGAIN: My advice to Allan was to take the fight. I'm sure somebody will interview him soon and hear it for themselves. We took the fight one hour after Holden got Arum up to $450,000. Training expenses were never finalized either and didn't come into the discussion until a week after I allegedly disrespected Arum so badly that I became the reason the fight isn't happening. Don't know how many promoters start negotiating training expenses a week after the fight is off the table? Notice there's no dollar amount for training expenses. Why? Because by the time Arum was going give us that number, HBO turned the fight down.

Closing: It is clear to me that this story was penned with malicious intentions to damage my reputation as an advisor to professional boxers. The story is littered with lies that the author neglected to fact check, even with the network who was allegedly airing this fight. The involved parties will be held accountable for these remarks as I will seek every remedy to protect my reputation. Fortunately, none of the boxers I currently work with are taking this too seriously because I keep them well informed, however I can't be nuts for thinking a story like this could create reluctance amongst other boxers considering to sign with me, can I?

 

Yesterday's paper.

 

True, but never posted on here.

 

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26915

still on page one of General Discussion

 

::

 

"Members only" is considered "posted on here"?

Thanks for the read lb4lb, I wish I could say the same for others who will remain nameless.

 

Haha, I´m 99% positive Greg Leon should be the last person to advise people on fact checking journalism. ::

 

Leon can try to cover his ass all he wants but the main point is...

Did Green get the fight with Pavlik?

If not, Leon fucked up.

 

the quote from the blog was in the same opening post. that's what was mainly discussed in the thread.

 

I suppose if Green was looking to cash out, then a fight with Pavlik makes sense. Otherwise, I would steer him clear of someone like Kelly and wait to challenge for a belt against someone with pillows where their fists should be

 

I'm not sure if Green would get past Berrio. A Pascal fight would probably suck.

 

just read Green's side of the story penned by Jake on boxingscene. good stuff, jake. :bears:

 

thanks joony.

 

Jake, you should get my side of the story. That way we would have all four corners of the argument. You know my digits.

:: Nah, really. Good stuff. Read that and your piece at Max last night before bed. I'm really looking forward to Cliff's article about the lineal WW champ on Wednesday.

 

Hey Jake, Greg Leon liked your interview. It's on his site now.

 

yeah, i had a feeling he'd like it ::... but still, it was cool of him to link the article on his site. He and I have always been cool, but the websites playing nice is another story (though more so between he and MaxBoxing), so that a B-Scene article would be linked on B-Talk says something.

I admit, I didn't hesitate to take a shot at Rafael, but the main point of my article was simply to get Allan Green on record. It should've been done the moment word came of negotiations for the Pavlik fight falling through.

I never understood why "major" writers so often go to another source for third party input rather than contacting someone directly. Boxing is probably the easiest sport for even any writer to fill up a rolodex. I mean shit, if you can get Bob Arum to pick up a phone, surely you can get a hold of a contender dying to be quoted.

 

But talking to fighters directly would be going a bit off the guided tour for most writers, wouldn't it?

BTW, good article.

Ward-Green would still be a worthwhile fight, IMO.

 

I still take what Green said with a grain of salt. The bottom line is, he's got turmoil within his team and they collectively shot themselves in the foot.

At the end of the day, he didn't get the fight due to their thinking they were negotiating from a point of strength.

The "who, how and why" doesn't matter because he's still got no fight on the horizon.

Did anyone expect Green to say "yeah, we screwed up?"

 

Well, it was mentioned on another board, but worth repeating...

Green's not the only one who didn't land the fight. Arum claims that he ran through something like 8 other opponents before "settling" for Hopkins. Eventually, the "I'm right, the rest of the world is wrong" defense loses validity.

This one became easy prey considering who was involved. I question whether or not a Pavlik-Green fight was intended. From the names Arum was first mentioning, it looked like a whole big charade to eventually justify a fight w/ Marco Antonio Rubio - "we've exhausted all other options, the fight is what it is." Only HBO wasn't willing to approve the fight.

hell, they never even officially approved Pavlik-Green for that matter (though Kery Davis no commented me to death on that and every other issue)

 

Hopkins is a big name and all but wouldn't pretty much anyone make for a more entertaining fight than him? HBO is squeezing their old name fighter's dry.

 

You and G have always been cool? I could have sworn you and everyone else on this board hated the guy. In fact up until a few weeks ago I had no idea why he was considered such a prick but I recently read something that told me the whole story (and then some) when it comes to G. Leon.

 

A lot of people have beef with him, and I don't pretend to not understand why. And I'm 99.9% sure I know what you're talking about (the thread heard 'round the net). But nah, we get along.

 

I don't know anyone that's a fan of Leon but after reading your article I get the feeling he's a victim of his own reputation. Green has always struck me as a pretty intelligent guy and it looks like Leon was working in his best interest. I'm guessing Arum just felt disrespected that this "unethical" new jack felt he could even begin to negotiate with him.

 

precisely. And I've personally dealt with promoters, matchmakers and managers who will find the pettiest of reasons to pull a deal off of the table, and then flip it like the uther side was unreasonable.

 

It's partly his own reputation, but I do think there's been a trend in boxing of people in the press and media wearing two hats.

Mike Marley and Greg Leon being examples of this.

 

I wanna know what this thread is.

:bears:

 

Arum's been quiet on this.....if his quotes are BS...shouldn't he come out and clear it all up?