If Clottey was superior on points, as you allege, why did he have to resort to headbutting Carlos? Was it because Carlos' relentless pressure led him to believe he couldn't win via legitimate means, and he preferred to extricate himself from the delicate situation by fouling himself out? I don't think Margarito is quite worthy yet, seeing as how he has a grand total of one (somewhat meaningless) victory after almost 15 years in boxing. But it's a moot point anyway, seeing as Floyd Mayweather retired after battering Zoo's daddy into submission.
:bears: Why yes Dympeople, I'm used to you taking the subject away on an interesting little tangent, and I think you've pretty much hit the nail clean on the head here, it should serve us all very well as a precedent in future. :bears: But I must wonder, if Baldomir ever made Floyd feel the same way?..I recall Floyd bawling and sobbing after the fight....but what confuses me is,... ..if Baldomir has a 5% knock out ratio?...can he really scare anybody into running away or fouling?..I mean sure, Floyd fouled and cried and carried on but,.. I mean.....Floyd's just, ....unique.
kauki, kauki......i'm disappointed in you....Surely, I could stoop to the level of changing one of your posts and proclaim (in your name) that Zoo, Abdula and Margo are the quitters of the higher caliber....But I restrain myself from such unoriginal action. Why are you avoiding the question about Clottey's loss to one Carlos Baldomir?
i'd love to see margarito vs. floyd, but i still don't understand this 'fraud' label. i've never been a big mayweather guy, but damn, it's not his damn fault that judah lost to baldomir. shit, he still beat both of them and beat oscar. he's already accomplished a lot at 130-140 and even won titles at 147 and 154. who gives a fuck if he doesnt fight margarito? it's not like people are demanding margarito to move up to 154 and fight santos or some title holder. if a guy like cotto is such a real fighter, why doesnt he move up to 160 and fight pavlik?
But shouldn't people start demanding that Margarito finally fight the guys his own size? I mean, Margarito is about twice as big as Cotto, yet there's no demand for Margarito to come up and face guys like Calzaghe or Pavlik.
Forgive the misunderstanding Dympeople but that is what I read from your post, it's all I could see, I'm so sorry, If I see phrases like "couldn't handle the pressure and uses fouls as a means of escape".. then I'm blinded Dympeople simply blinded by a collection of memories and images in relation to one Floyd Mayweather jr :crying:,..it's like a google search Dympeople,..only more volatile,.. ---Now in relation to Mohammed Ali quitting, yes that's already been very much irrefuteably established on this messageboard,.. ------and I thought we came to an agreement on the proven formulae that if there is no KO, a fighter who has won more rounds is victorious, I think it's pretty simple Dympeople, I'm not sure how further I can help you realise this, I know it may be hard to accept, Im a Carlos Tata Baldomir fan myself, a prime Baldomir was awesome but... you know...facts are facts,..
Finally we agree, Kauki. A prime Baldomir was a force to be reconed with....The way he handled a prime Clottey stands in stark contrast to the way Margarito struggled with the same....
Yes I think we'll agree to that particular quote Dympeople, I like that actually,.. 'a PRIME Baldomir' ,..
Exactomundo, my dear Kauki, exactomundo.... Now, if you could only append a "beat prime Clottey" to "a prime Baldomir", we very could be friends, very well could be....
obviously you missed my point. i brought that up as an example because everyone is shitting on floyd for not fighting margarito or cotto.
Joony please, it's what happens when you call yourself the greatest of all time, but refuse to even fight the best in your own division. Floyd shouldn't recieve any sympathy, it's like when he was bawling on the podium at a post fight presser while simultaneously recieving a cheque for 8 million dollars.....:shit: how pathetically out of touch
I have still yet to see a single person claim delahoya had any victory that trumps margaritos signature stoppage of cotto. glad we're in agreement
Personally, I thought DLH beat Trinidad and I'd consider that more significant at that time then Margarito's victory over Cotto. Let's not forget how vulnerable Cotto looked against Ricardo Torres and even at times against Lovemore Ndou.
well I was not impressed at all by delahoyas performance against trinidad. whether or not you consider that a victory. I'm not sure who was more weight drained, cotto vs torres & ndou or trinidad vs delahoya
Let's see where Cotto rates toward the end of his career. As it is now, who knows just how good Cotto is. He could be the next Vargas for all we know. Oscar has by far a better resume than Margarito. It's going to be a while before this question can be answered.
If he is the next Vargas, wouldn't Margarito's win still rank higher because Cotto hadn't been beaten, or knocked out, prior to Margarito doing it? De La Hoya didn't fight Vargas until after Trinidad gave him a sustained beating. Vargas was diminished...something clearly evident in subsequent performances against Rivera and Flores. The main thing in DLH's favor in this comparison might be Vargas' size and the fact he was on steroids...whereas Cotto was significantly smaller that Margarito.
if we're going suggest cotto is the next vargas then we may as well compare trinidads win over vargas to margaritos win over cotto.
Wow, I am so glad I get to experience the genius of "Neil". What a fantastic point. Margarito win over a clear all time great like Cotto. I mean, Cotto barely beat a shot Shane Mosley, he beat Zab who hadn't won a fight in two years(but he was very relevant). He beat Paul Malignaggi who is a very large junior welter with perfect hands and a punch heard 'round the world. Margarito's career was much better than DLH. Whitaker Vargas Chavez Margo etc... COTTO RESUME IS FAR BETTER. AND MARGARITO BEAT THAT SUPERSTAR!! I think this thread is "short" (just an expression buddy) on logic and a central point.
as scintillating as delahoyas victory over whitaker was, I'll have to give the nod to margarito stopping cotto. especially considering margarito actually landed some meaningful punches in the fight. the first chavez fight was a solid victory for delahoya. despite the cut chavez entered the ring with, and the 100 fights he had prior. not sure who margo is
"personally", you have a deep hatred for ODH so there's no debating his career with you, period. According to you, it was a flop. He didn't deserve a single one of his victories. And he never fought anyone worth a damn. So what's the point of making a thread like this? What's the point of asking a question when you won't even acknowledge reality? But to answer your question, which I'm sure you'll disagree with and back up your answers with a bunch of personal insults aimed at ODH, his win over Vargas was every bit as impressive if you ask me.
if cotto had looked vulnerable and mediocre against shibata flores prior to fighting margarito then I would be forced to agree with you, Señor Objectivity
in all fairness, stopping vargas at 154 was a pretty impressive win for oscar. vargas might not have been the same after tito, but a handful of folks did pick vargas to win that fight. but then again, no one had considered vargas to be a top 15 p4p level fighter by then. margarito demolished an unbeaten cotto who was perceived one of the best fighters in the game.
