Sugar Ray Leonard: an appreciation.

Yep which wsa completely ridiculous. Only Leonard could get away with that.

De La Hoya should make Wlad come down to 154 and fight for the heavyweight title.

 

Let go of your nostalgia, SRL is an old time sloth who's skills were okay back in the day but today's athletes are bigger, stronger, and technically superior. If SRL was around today he'd probably have his ears boxed off by Cory Spinks and undoubtedly KO'd by Mayorga.

 

Yeah, but you're talking about Donnie Lalonde for god's sake. It's not like Lalonde was a great, power-punching LHW. Lalonde was as mediocre as champions get.

And if we're being completely honest, without the rose colored, hero-worshipping glasse on, the truth is that Leonard never clearly beat any meaningful opponents north of 147 unless you count the close, controversial track meet against Hagler or the win against the extremely untested and unproven Kalule.

 

and the Lightheavy title at the same time. To me, that's the biggest crime of the whole Leonard-Lalonde fiasco. It was for title in 2 seperate weight classes.

I'm curious if anyone else has won a championship in a particular weight class at a 'catch' weight which is below or above the weight limit for that division.

 

Leonard fought in the 80's, not the fuckin 20's! The lower weight fighters of today are no more talented, or skilled than the 80's crop. In fact, they're less so.

I think(and hope) your post is an attempt at humor though.

 

clearly

 

whether it was a close win or loss, his fight against hagler was impressive. as was his victory over kahlule. other than those fights, I'd agree.

what is interesting is the criticism against mayweather that "he's no ray leonard" or "he couldn't beat leonard at welter". no shit, but he also started fighting 17lbs below where leonard began.

 

trplsec is just bitter that Leonard never clowned his hero, McCallum.

McCallum is a 1980's Winky Wright, Leonard is a legend.

 

Well, Oscar did make Bernard come down to 157 for the middleweight championship. ::

 

he is making pacquaio come up 15lbs after the guy just went up 5 in his last fight. hopkins dropping 3lbs wasn't shit compared to what may happen in december.

virgil pacquaio knows who butters the bread, oscar dibease.

 

:::laughing:

 

You and I both know that Leonard wouldn't come close to clowning McCallum. In fact, Leonard never really clowned any good fighter aside from the No Mas Duran debacle.

Hell, McCallum didn't even get clowned by a prime Roy Jones when McCallum was 40. Nor was he clowned at 41 by James Toney at freaking cruiserweight. I seriously doubt Leonard would clown a 154 pound, prime version of The Body Snatcher.

In a 15 rounder in 1984, McCallum would have been the first to stop Leonard and force him into a REAL retirement.

And if McCallum is Winky Wright, then Leonard is Oscar De La Hoya. Because Oscar dodged Winky the same way Leonard avoided McCallum like the plague.

 

Didn't suggest it was.

 

Is that an 80's WWF reference?

Classic.::

 

Are you surprised? Men, Muscles, Fake tans and oil. That formula would make Neil "excited" 100% of the time.

 

Mike McCallum isn't that good. You can color up his losses all you like, the hard truth is

- McCallum's best wins are over Julian Jackson and Donald Curry, two guys who were stopped handily by other good/great fighters of their era

- McCallum split two close fights with Sumbu Kalambay

He did good work with the B level fighters of his era, and lost to the A level fighters (save Curry).

To suggest he could handle Sugar Ray Leonard based on his meager credentials is blind fandom at its finest. Leonard ran from Tommy Hearns, he didn't run from a guy going life or death with Herol Graham

 

Goos post, Jaws.
I've never seen the attraction with McCallum at all....and as for Trplsec's post about his fights with Jones Jr and Toney - that tells you all you need to know about a pussy with no chin and a fat drug-cheating fuck.

 

mike mccallum was a bad man, not an easy night for anyone. name guys in the 80s knew he wasn't worth the risk

 

dsimon writes:

agreed

 

You should be banned for stupidity off that statement, and off this entire post in general. Mike McCallum wasnt that good? He's arguably the best 154 pounder that ever lived!

Holding his loss to Kalambay against him is retarded! Kalambay was a goddamn good fighter(highly underrated) and he just happened to have McCallum's number. And Graham was another highly underrated fighter, very hard to look against. McCallum beat him quite clearly, despite the fact he didnt look great doing so. He also was the first to hand Jackson a loss, was the only one to beat Julian in his prime(G-man beat a faded, undersized Jackson). You also forgot to mention that he schooled the shit outta Steve Collins, beat the living fuck outta Micheal Watson, and had 3 close encounters with a prime, young Toney when Mike himself was past. But he wasnt that good?

McCallum would have been hell for Leonard. I think Ray would have won, but anyone that thinks it woulda been an easy fight for Leonard is on the pipe!

This forum has really gone backwards when a guy like Margarito is now considered a semi-god on here, while a great like Mike McCallum is called "not that good".

 

Dude, I just added you to my buddy list for this one.

How can anyone discredit a guy like McCallum.. Think about it for a second Jaws. McCallum at 34 years old fought Graham, Collins and Watson consecutively.

How can you not admire a guy that was willing to fight anyone, anywhere and win?

Not to mention, I would put his 154 pound championship reign up against anyone. 10-0 with 10 KO's as Jr MW Champion? That's amazing by anyone's standards.

There hasn't been a fighter that lived that would "toy" with a prime McCallum. That's as moronic a statement as anyone could possibly make.

 

Wouldn't he have had the opportunity to fight Curry as well?

I think it's B.S. to say that he ducked nobody. If there were someone calling him out who he didn't want to fight, he'd simply retire. Prime Hagler. McCallum. Not sure if the Curry fight could've been made or not, but Curry was the P4P #1 fighter near or around the time SRL had recently retired or was planning to.

Plus, his win over an old Hagler was a sham - a stink-fest.

And no way did he deserve a draw in the Hearns rematch.

And he was beaten decisively by Duran when Duran was in shape and mentally up for the fight. Too many people think the rematch somehow erased this defeat. It didn't. The rematch was a close fight when Duran quit and although SRL made adjustments that afforded him more success in the rematch, it's not as if he proved himself the superior fighter.

 

Amen! McCallum was so good, that if he was in his prime today, I think he'd be the P4P #1. NONE at 147-154 currently would have a shot in holy hell at beating McCallum, and at 160 I think he'd have picked apart Pavlik.

 

Ray Leonard was one of the best fighters that ever lived, but he also might have been THE biggest oppertunist in boxing history. He waited for Hagler to get old, rushed Duran into a rematch knowing Roberto blew up in between fights, and wanted no parts of Curry, or McCallum. Personally I think that had he fought McCallum in 87 Mike would have had a great chance of winning. McCallum was in his prime then, unlike Hagler who was faded by that point.

Now if you match the prime, early 80's Leonard with Curry, or McCallum, I'd pick Ray over both. Still doesnt change the fact that Ray ducked both those guys.

 

Damn Double L, you think exactly along my lines when it comes to Leonard. How can people forget that in the biggest Welterweight fight of his life, he was clearly beaten by Duran?

And I always hate people that say "Oh well Leonard was retired when McCallum was big at 154." Well, he didn't have any problem unretiring when he saw that Hagler show signs of slipping. Nor did he have any problems unretiring when Hearns finally became punchy.

Leonard was amazingly skilled and among the most naturally gifted fighters I've ever seen. But in all honesty, he ducked fighters, didn't actually win titles in 5 division, and gets far too much credit for his wins over Duran and Hagler.

 

I hate Ray Leonard and that is moronic. His biggest fight was against Hearns and he won. Gay Ray was beaten by the mauling homo Duran and he was an opportunist.

Still, he ducked Mccallum and Mccallum was on the level of Hagler, Hearns, Duran(especially Duran) and Leonard. That is the tragedy of it all. The guy never got the chance to fail.To me, he belongs in that class of fighter. Mccallum was great.

 

So everyone McCallum fought was severely underrated?

Again, his best wins are over guys who were also starched by other good/great fighters of his day.

You can scream about how great he did against Toney all you want, this is the same Toney who was losing virtually 10-0 to michael nunn and got a KO to make up for it. Add that to the fact that Toney NEVER did well against boxers and you can see how McCallum had success (granted he didn't actually win either fight).

So a recap, a guy with alot of skills, who proved them by beating B+ level fighters, is gonna take down Sugar Ray Leonard in the early 1980's?

Sounds like someone is OVERRATED.

 

Are you aware of anything in boxing history? First of, Nunn was winning against Toney up until the stoppage, but it was HARDLY a shutout. Toney broke Nunn down, and its no disgrace that he was trailing in the fight, considering a prime Nunn was a special fighter.

Second of all you simp, when did I EVER say that McCallum would have beaten a prime Leonard? I didnt. I think he might have beaten Leonard in 87, but no I wouldnt pick him over the early 80's Leonard, though I believe he'd have given Ray a tough fight. Ray was a great fighter, but it wasnt as if he was invincible, or immune to losing rounds. I think the early 80's Leonard would win a tough, but clear UD over McCallum. But there isnt a fighter in the history of 147-160 who would have any easy time with a prime McCallum.

 

Make no mistake though, if Leonard was prime today, he'd rule 147 with no problem at all. Margarita is waaaaaaayyyyy too slow to have beaten Leonard, and Ray woulda beaten the shit outta Williams and knocked out Cotto within 7 rounds. And forget Leonard-Mayweather happening, cause if a prime Ray was around today, Floyd woulda kept his ass at 140.

 

1) All Nunn had to do was run the last two rounds and he'd have won on all 3 cards

2) YOU jumped in on my response to trplsec. I don't care whether or not you said it. YOU jumped into OUR conversation and started defending his claims about McCallum, which included saying he'd beat Leonard.

3) Mike McCallum beat 0 fighters on the level of Duran/Hearns/Hagler, though he certainly did lose to the only fighter of that level he did fight (RJJ)

4) I know this is all tied to your love of RJJ. RJJ beat McCallum, so lets jump in to every topc and talk up his opponents.

5) Lets for the third time recap key points

McCallum had two favorable matchups against a Toney who has been historically inconsistent and holds 0 wins.

McCallum's best wins are over people who were KTFO by other B level fighters

McCallum split two fights with Sumbu Kalambay, a belt-holder calibur fighter at best