UFC 87: AUGUST 9, 2008 IN MINNEAPOLIS venue: Target Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota Main Card Bouts: -Georges St. Pierre (#1 Welterweight in the World)* vs. Jon Fitch (#2 Welterweight in the World)* -Kenny Florian vs. Roger Huerta -Brock Lesnar vs. Heath Herring -Demian Maia vs. Jason MacDonald -Manny Gamburyan vs. Rob Emerson TFK
Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch (Fitch TKO Knees) -Kenny Florian vs. Roger Huerta (Huerta UD) -Brock Lesnar vs. Heath Herring (Herring TKO Strikes) -Demian Maia vs. Jason MacDonald (Maia Triangle Choke) -Manny Gamburyan vs. Rob Emerson (Gamburyan TKO via kick while faking touching gloves at the start of the fight)
I'm leaning that way too. Herring isn't top flight, but he's no slouch either. I know TFK has said it before, but you have to admit that you don't get any free passes in the UFC...
Georges St. Pierre TKO3 Kenny Florian by decision Brock Lesnar by KO Demian Maia by sub Manny Gamburyan by sub
Wow, I am either seriously underrating Lesnar or I think too highly of Herring. Nevertheless, I am now looking forward to this fight as well. As if Florian-Huerta and Fitch-GSP weren't enough.
And Lesnar is what?? As shitty as Herring may be, what makes you hink that Brock can deal with his experience? From what I have seen of Brock's stand up, I don't think that it will be very pretty.
Herring got grapple-fucked by O'Brien and was out wrestled by Kongo. He will spend the entire fight on his back getting pounded. The only thing he ever did well was knee on the ground and that's illegal in the UFC.
What have you seen if Brock's stand up? When he dropped Mir with 1 punch? When he took Mir down with ease? When he took Kim down with ease? I know it's not enough to be an accurate sample size, but in limited action, Lesnar's standup has looked very good. I think Brock is just too big and strong for Herring. TFK
Have you seen Mir fight lately?? Kim?? Are you serious? Im just saying that I think Lesnar is a little too green for Herring right now. His striking seems very crude to me and Herring could definately exploit that. We shall see.
WOW!!!artie: N the Short Time REED's Been Watching MMA, this just Might B THE BEST Card he's Seen, Top to Bottom...UFC Card, Anyways... REED has Failed to Make a Prediction Up til Now Because he can HONESTLY See All of these Bouts Going EITHER Way... GSP is the Man, but REED has Seen Quite a Bit of Fitch & been IMPRESSED just about Everytime... It's Kinda GAY, but REED's Forced into Picking the Fighters he "Likes" the Most &/or has Seen MORE Of... GSP Huerta (Speaking of "Gay") Lesnar MacDonald Gamburyan REED:mj:
If Brock Lesnar doesn't get Herring out of there in the first round, he's done. I anticipate he'll attempt a takedown and GnP and as fatigue begins to set in(if Herring is still around), Brock will attempt lay and pray tactics and as the round ends, Herring will come out with strikes, Lesnar will tire, Herring will get a take down of his own and will proceed to tap Lesnar out with either gnp of his own or a choke. My money is going on Herring tonight.
So how does that equate to Lesnar having bad standup? If you want to assume that Lesnar has lousy standup, that's one thing, but to base it on 'what you've seen' is just stupid, since Lesnar hasn't done anything but look good on his feet. I don't see where his striking is 'crude' when in 2 fights, he's been on his feet maybe a combined 20 seconds, and in those 20 seconds, he easily blocked 2 kicks, thrown 1 punch that dropped Mir, and executed two picture perfect takedowns. TFK
I'm with you. Brock is not really efficient in his striking and with that body size, I see half a round at best in his fuel tank depending on his gameplan. I hope he's learned from the Mir fight.
It's difficult to become a good striker when wrestling is your forte throughout most of your life. Look at Matt Hughes. The consensus is that Lesnar is clumsy and I think it was his physical superiority over Mir more than anything else. Great takedowns though. But I feel his game needs to expand beyond just some takedowns because fighters will see his game and adjust accordingly. He's gonna need some serious submission defense.
Why is it stupid? From the fights that I have seen, as well as footage of him training, the mechanics of Lesnars stand up is terrible. The only way Lesnar is going to win this fight is taking Herring down and keeping him there. I seriously doubt Lesnar outstrikes Herring.
Lesnar's best submission defense is clearly his size. He's just so big and strong, it'll be tough to get him in any kind of armbars. Mir tried it, and Lesnar just powered out of it every time. His legs are a different story, but hopefully he learned from his mistake against Mir. I'd say the best way to sub Lesnar would be to get him deep into the fight, hope he starts to gas, then to wrap on a choke. Like with the arms, his size is gonna make it tough to wrap on tight, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. I do love watching Mir sub Lesnar, because it was such a picture perfect submission. You can see the exact moment Mir realizes that Lesnar is wide open for the sub and doesn't realize it. Then it looks like something out of an instructional video, as he wraps the leg, takes him down, turns him into position, and it's over. If Lesnar does lose to Herring, I still think it would be a mistake for the UFC to cut him. He has so much raw stregth and talent, it's easy to forget he's still learning on the job. If he sticks with it and gets the proper training, 2 or 3 years down the road, Lesnar can be a monster. TFK
I don't think Lesnar is going to be a monster in today's time. If this was 10 years ago, sure. But fighters have evolved and that can only happen by coming up from bush leagues and learning as you progress. Lesnar is trying to start at the top and he is out of his league. The game has passed Matt Hughes by and each time we see more and more of his limitations as his wrestling continuously becomes nullified by better-trained opposition. Lesnar needs to add another demension in his game. From what I've seen of him and his last 2 mma fights, he has a very basic style of fighting. Punch, takedown, ground and pound. That's the HammerHouse style that is way outdated. Fighters are far more prepared for the Lesnar style. That's why I'm hoping that his game has elevated and he shows something new in tonight's fight. Being extremely big and strong is not that big a factor in today's times.
Just realized, I never gave my picks.... GSP by sub in R3. I'm rooting for Fitch though, since I can't stand GSP. Florian by Decision. I'm rooting for Huerta, but as good as his record is, he's never faced anyone. (Great line by Dana White about Florian and Huerta..."Both guys have hearts the size of Tito's fucking head.") This wins fight of the night. Lesnar KO 2. He's gonna take down Herring at will. If Herring couldn't handle O'Brien's wrestling, he won't be able to handle Brock's. Gamburyan KO 1. Emerson is terrible. I guess the UFC likes Gamburyan so they're giving him the easy road, much like they did with Huerta. Gamby wins KO of the night. Maia by sub R1. Maia is on his way up, MacDonald is on his way down. Maia has good subs, and will win submission of the night. TFK
