Holyfield/Tyson/Lewis/Bowe - How would you rate them...

I know what you're saying, REED, and I don't necessarily disagree - but Holyfield has taken shitting on your legacy to a whole new level. It's getting to the point where he's been shit for almost as long as he was good. ::

 

Not really. ::

At least for entertainment value. In that sense, it's somewhat unwatchable, to be honest.

A bit like the Holmes fight.

But in terms of seeing him change, it's worth watching.

 

Thanks. ::

I my favorite part of Holyfield/Holmes is the pre-fight intros. Buffer introduces Holmes as a former champ with 15 defenses, and Larry walks right up to the mic and yells "TWENTY"

 

Caught your edit, thanks.

 

That was easier to watch than him throwing up. ::

 

Holmes was pretty f'n competitive that night too.

 

agREED...

REED Actually LIKES Teddy Atlas & Considering their History, REED DOESN'T Blame Atlas 1 Bit for LOATHING Tyson as he Does, but the FACT Is, Teddy has Done EVERYTHING N his Power to UNDERMINE All that Tyson has Done...

Teddy Even Go's Sooooo Far as to CRITICIZE Cus D'Amato N the Process...

Teddy's Generally "FAIR but Firm", but when it Comes to Tyson, Atlas is INCAPABLE of Being Objective...



REED:mj:

 

Yeah, and then he picks him to beat Lewis.::

I never quite understood it.

But he's certainly become the accepted narrator of Tyson's career.

 

I remember Teddy actually picking Lewis to beat Tyson, but it seemed as if he thought Tyson would win. He kept talking throughout this program about how Lewis could get knocked out if he did this and did that.

Then when it came time to pick a prediction, his reasoning for picking Lewis had nothing to do with tactics or boxing. It was "I believe good will happen for the good of the sport" or some shit.

I don't blame Atlas for disliking Tyson, but Atlas is annoying anyway.

And an overrated trainer and "motivator".

 

Well, I may be wrong, but from what I remember, he changed his pick during the week of the fight.

 

dsimon writes:

Yes one way to look at the analysis is that measure. Lewis deserves a lot of props for that achievment.

What is nice is that people are realizing how good Lewis is now. Lewis never got respect when he was at the top of the division and he damn well deserved respect.

 

dsimon writes:

Agreed. Holy was strong and game but Tyson's hand speed was phenominal back then.

 

dsimon writes:

Fuck yeah! :cheer: Moore was the top dog at Kronk Gym for a long time. And he was considered the atchetype of the michigan style represented by Kronk... a fighters fighter and Manny had a lot to do with that.

 

Ruddock?? What did he ever do in his career that you want to shoe-horn him into this topic except get his ass kicked by Tyson and Lewis? Bowe was a much better fighter than Ruddock and going 2-1 (and the loss was close) against Holyfield is miles ahead of anything Ruddock ever accomplished.

 

I agree that accomplished wise Bowe shits on Ruddock. And Bowe was a better fighter.

Stylewise however, I think Ruddock would have been a tough fight for Bowe. Ive always felt that way.

Bowe's power wasnt on the level of Tyson, or Lewis. Add that to the fact that Bowe was a sucker for left hooks, and Ruddock's was murderous.

Razor would have been a VERY dangerous fight for Bowe IMO.

 

I think Atlas also changed his pick for Mayweather-De La Hoya.

 

I'd say most punchers would be very dangerous for Bowe. Bowe seemed to have a good chin, but didn't face a lot of big punchers. The biggest punchers he did face, Golota and Hide, hurt him numerous times.

Maybe that played a role in him or his management, not facing Lewis.

 

Bowe's biggest problem is that all those good fighters would hit Riddick with whatever they threw. Riddick's chin was good, but not great and when he ate shots, he took them flush and in high numbers. It's no suprise he ended up with brain damage.

You don't beat punchers by letting them hit you with their best shots.

 

I agree with this. I never saw what people saw in Bowe. His defense was putrid. He was a very tough guy. He also had an ego in the ring. He was lazy. I never saw the skill set people saw. He would give up his considerable height and reach and lay on the inside. He had coordination for his size, but he was in the limelight much longer than he deserved with his putrid level of opposition.

 

Agreed. Him taking flush shots like that from Lewis, or Tyson would have been suicide. But then again, Bowe had the punch to ice Lewis also. The differance is, at least Lummox attempted to avoid punches. Bowe never did.

Tyson would have KO'd Bowe w/no doubt. It woulda been a war, but Tyson was the bigger puncher with the better chin, AND better handspeed and defense. Bowe wouldnt see past round 6 with Tyson.

 

although i would favor tyson over bowe, tyson has never fought anyone as good as bowe and won.

i would've favored bowe to knock lewis out had they fought when the match was first talked about.

i hate holyfield but he is the best of this list.

 

The most obvious list:

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson
4. Bowe

 

Tyson's overall resume is better than Bowe's. Outside of Holy, who the hell did Bowe beat?

He got a disputed decision over Tony Tubbs. The same Tubbs that Tyson obliterated in 2 rounds.

Tyson's wins over Ruddock, Bruno, Biggs, Thomas, Tucker, and Spinks BLOW AWAY Bowe's resume if you take out Holy.

And the opposite is also true. Bowe never faced anyone like Tyson. Holy didnt bring Tyson's firepower, and handspeed to the table.

Tyson from 86-89 was a great fighter.

Bowe was a great fighter for ONE night.

Not to mention.... Bowe was scared of Tyson.

 

He was also terrified of Lennox Lewis. His ducking of Lewis was the single most cowardly act in Boxing history outside of the ring.
I think Joony's contention that Bowe would kayo Lewis is ridiculous. He must have missed theGold medal match in the amies. Lewis made Bowe quit. Lewis had Bowe beat before they ever met which is why Bowe refused to fight him even though he agreed to fight the winner of Lewis/Ruddock.

 

Lewis was pretty inconsistent early in his career. I think Bowe at his best would beat the Lewis that fought Bruno.

However, the Lewis that beat Ruddock KO's any Bowe in the mid rounds.

I dont think Bowe was all that scared of Lewis. If he was, he wouldnt have gotten in his face after the first Holy fight. If Bowe ever got in Tyson's face like that, Mike would have Mitch Green'd him.

So I dont think Bowe was scared of Lewis. But perhaps Rock Newman was scared of Lewis, and didnt let Bowe fight him.

 

Well, I did think he was pretty talented and had good abilities. He had a very good workrate and inside skills. His uppercut was terrific and his stamina was good. He was going strong after 12 in the rematch with Holyfield, even when he didn't train like he should've and carrying 11 extra pounds in his stomach (compared to the first fight).

As what has been said, his problem (inside the ring) was his lack of defense. And as you said, he'd give up his reach and height and lay on the inside.

As was the case for other taller fighters such as Corrales and Margarito, I think that's where he excelled. He was better up close than at range. His defense seemed better up close. I saw him get hit so often from the outside or mid-range, more so than laying on the inside.

 

I think Rock Newman wanted Riddick Bowe to make easy money on HBO against guys like Michael Dokes, Jesse Ferguson, and a supposedly soft touch in a rematch with Evander Holyfield.

I don't think Bowe himself was scared. I rarely do when it comes to fighters.

 

Agreed. Bowe was probably the first fighter to milk an HBO contract. Newman wanted him having no parts of Lewis, and if Tyson didnt go to jail, Newman woulda probably avoided Mike also.

Bowe cant be compared to Tyson because Mike pretty much cleaned out the entire division in the late 80's. He was consistent in his short prime.

Bowe was never consistent.

 

I think Rock Newman also liked his status when Bowe was the champion, going on world tours and what not.

Also, it's not like he would've fought Ferguson had Mercer not laid an egg against him in the Garden.

 

wow, now bowe quit against lewis in their am fight. the truth gets lost along the way over the years. that was a joke of a stoppage, and in no way did bowe quit.