Holyfield/Tyson/Lewis/Bowe - How would you rate them...

Ridiculous. He did with security around and on tv. It speaks volumes that he refused to fight him. You must have missed the Godl medal match. In the ring, Lewis made Bowe quit like a dog. Bowe got Dq'd and he looked like a kid who was told not to pass notes. He wanted out bad. Btw, the Lewis that beat Rudduock WAS the guy Bowe was going to face.

 

I know what happened in the Gold Medal match. But its like Bowe got in Lummox's face with security in between them. He and Lummox were practically nose-to-nose. If Lummox had swung on him, security wouldnt have time to break it. I mean, its not like we're talking middleweights here. These are two 6'5", 240 pound men. Security would have had HELL breaking them lose if a real fight broke out, and alot of security coulda gotten hurt.

Bowe probably knew Lewis' personality though. He's not the type to swing first, unless Bowe hit him first(which he wouldnt have done).

Like I said... if that was Tyson instead, Bowe woulda never done it. Security or no security. Cause we all know Mike didnt give a fuck... he woulda swung on Bowe right then.

 

i watched the bowe-lewis fight here in seoul when i lived here.

lewis was a much more experienced amateur by the time they fought. bowe just a kid.

lewis lost to ruddock and biggs in amateurs, but he proved be better than both in the pro ranks didnt he? how is it ridiculous to say that bowe wouldnt have fared better in the pro ranks?

like Xplosive said, lewis was inconsistent early in his career. he took more risks considering he was capable of being KOed early in his career, which made him more watchable than when he soon hooked up w/ steward, the same guy who trained mccall when he stopped lewis in 2.

 

Ridiculous. How about promising to fight Lewis and then not doing it. Bowe knew Lewis would laugh at it and he did. Lewis just said he was going to knock him out. I disagree. Bowe would have sat on his stool. Bowe just decided to not put up a pretense and decided to sit on his stool before they fought.

 

tyson had a better resume, yes.

tubbs took bowe to school, but so what? a young tyson went through hell against that clincher james tillis.

either way, yea tyson probably beats bowe, but there isn't a single win that tyson has had (maybe w/ an exception of the Spinks win) that matches bowe's first win over holyfield.

 

Went through Hell, . He won 8 out of 10 rounds at worst.

 

he looked fatigued towards the end and looked sloppy as fuck.

but why am i even taking your input into consideration. i'll take my opinion over your's any day of the week.

 

That's unfortunate.

 

Bowe was shit scared of Lennox Lewis, absolutely and without question. Lest we forget that rather than fight Lewis, as promised, he threw his belt in a BIN live on TV to advoid making good on his promise.

To suggest otherwise is to fly in the face of clear, undisputable FACT. If Bowe thought he could beat Lennox, he would have fought him. Instead, he vacated the HW championship of the world...:shit:

Tyson has become underrated, no question about that, but NO version of Tyson beats Lewis; absolutely none. Tyson's run as 'baddest man on the planet' came courtesy of beating a whole pile of mooks- NO version of Mike has beaten ANY fighter of the calibre of Lennox. Moreover, Lennox is too smart, savvy and BIG for Mike to beat- even a 1987-88 version of Tyson spends tweleve straight rounds eating Lennox's left jab on his way to a wide UD.

Mike was a boxing BULLY- he won most of his fights before his opponents got into the ring, and played on his opponents fear to beat the shit out fo them. Lewis was NEVER frightened of Tyson or anyone else, and when you stand up to Mike and didnt let him intimidate you, you had every chance. The first man to really try it was Douglas; a game but limited HW by any standards, and certainly nowhere NEAR Lewis in terms of skill, ability or anything else worth comapring.

And lest we forget the fact that Mike paid Lewis a whole pile of cash to sidestep him when it looked like he finally had no choice but to get into a ring with him. Instead of fighting Lewis, Mike fought a 'washed up Holyfield' expecting to find a man way past his best after the wars with Bowe. Ooops...::

If you include Holy's reign at CW, then his career is better than Lewis's; just. But you only have to look at the shocking state of the HW division now to see just how good Lewis was at HW. Without him, that division is an absolute desert.

MTF

 

dsimon writes:

See this is the shit that makes me crazy! When Rucock was coming up people thought as highly of him as Bowe and his record is about as impressive. He fought Tyson tough twice and Bowe fought holy tough a few times. Bowe chickened out and Ruddoc got beat by Lewis.

Everybody forgets that RR was a highly regarded fighter... Thats a fact, and he was about as good as Bowe was, which was why I brought him into the mix.

 

This is simplistic. I don't want to overrate Mike's level of comp but he did murder people. His reputation as a bully is overrated. Bruno stood up to him. Others did as well. He just took them out. Douglas did it successful. What is weird is people say Tyson was a bully. Douglas beat the ever loving shit out of him and Tyson still kept coming. His prime was going to be short either way. I think a prime Mike may have beaten Lewis but I'd bet on Lewis.

 

Exactly. A bully is Mayorga, or Golota. Tyson had somewhat of a bully mentality, but combined it with SERIOUS power, speed, skill, and raw talent. I laugh when people act like ALL it took to beat Tyson is to stand up to him. If that was the case, Ruddock woulda beaten him both times, cause Razor wasnt intimidated by Mike in the LEAST bit. Tyson still beat the holy hell outta him twice.

Mike wasnt nearly as much of a dog as people think. He had heart. Not heart on the level of a Holyfield, or Corrales, but he was no bitch. He gets a pass for blatantly quitting against Williams, and McBride when he was an old, pathetic man. He also never made any excuses after his losses.

 

Agreed, Mike did murder people, but he murdered people who just weren't all that good.

Bruno? Come on. Frank was a big punch bag with a glass chin. Big hearted and a decent puncher, sure, but no more or less than that. Look at the second Tyson-Bruno fight; Frank was literally SHITTINg himself during the ringwalk, hence the quick, brutal stoppage.

I'm not saying that Mike wasn't couragous- he kept coming at Lewis until he could come no more as well as against Buster- but his wins came when he could intimidate people OUT of the ring before he went INTO the ring. When that failed (Holy, Buster, Lennox, some moolies late on), he lost.

Nor am I saying that Mike wasn't a GREAT HW, because he was. A top ten HW IMHO, at his best for sure.

However, I repeat- NO version of Mike beats Lewis. Lewis would have done to Mike what he did to Tua; shut him out by playing a safety first, 'hide behind a jab for 12 rounds' game. Mike was too small to get around Lennox's huge reach and size advantage. Prime or no.

MTF

 

Well thats your opinion, and I respect it, but its a flat out INSULT to compare a young Tyson to that slob Tua. Tyson was lightyears quicker on his feet than Tua, and with better handspeed and jab. He'd have more success getting inside.

I'd pick the 88 Tyson over Lewis, but I admit... Lewis would have had a better chance at beating a prime Mike than Bowe would have had.

 

I agree that he would have had more success inside than Tua did, and I agree that Tua is a class or two (at least) below a prime Mike, but the comparison is relevant because of the size and respective strengths (namely KO power).

When Tua fought Lennox many felt that his power would cause Lennox a lot of bother. Lennox neutralised it by using his superior reach, skills and jab. IMHO he would have done the same to Mike.

Because Mike never fought Lennox closer to his prime, when he has the chance, and instead PAID Lennox money to go away for a bit, these discussions will continue forever and a day, but the relevant facts are that:

1. Mike's 'prime' came courtesy of a lot of wins against averaage or slightly better than average opponents.

2. Mike lost every fight against the 'name' fighters of his generation that he faced.

3. Mike paid Lewis to go away rather than fight him so he could take a big money fight against Holy, who was presumed shot to pieces after the Bowe fights.

4. When Mike finally got round to fighting Lennox, who was by that time past his prime also, he lost brutally.

I'd pick Mike to beat Bowe and Holy in his prime, no worries, but he would not have beaten Lennox. He'd have a chance, in his prime, sure, but he would not have beaten him. If he thought himself that he could, why did he wait until both men were past their best to finally get round to taking the chance?

MTF

 

Tyson was much better at getting inside and closing distance than Tua was, and his handspeed was far superior, and his punch variety was greater.

I don't really see the comparison beyond some of the obvious physical ones (like height/reach) and power.

 

the accomplishments of lewis get greater and greater.

this 88 olympic final was where he allegedly made bowe quit, and where bowe was disqualified. :: makes you wonder if some folk actually saw the bout.

 

Tyson's power was better than Tua's as well. Tua never KO'd anyone with a proven chin.

Tyson fought alot of durable guys, and completely destroyed them.

 

tyson was a lot better than the best version of tua.

nevermind that tua had gained at least 20lbs and sat on his ranking fighting no hopers for 3 years prior to finally cashing out vs lewis. a worthless comparison

 

I think Tyson's speed and shiftiness would've really disrupted Lewis. His height would've been difficult to deal with.

Lewis was comfortable when he could dictate with his jab. He just wouldn't have been able to do that against Tyson like he did with Tua.

 

dsimon writes:

You beat me to it brother. :bears:

yet the comparison to Tua is quite natural. Again: people were saying how Tua was the next Tyson, yada yada yada.

here is the one big difference. Tyson's attack was not dependent on reach or size. Tua's attack was hindered by his relative size and strength. In his prime Tyson never was neutralized by an opponent's size or reach. The best an opponent could do was last with Mike.

I think Lewis was big and skilled enough that he could be an interesting opponent for a prime Mike Tyson.

 

Tyson at his best and Lennox at his.. it's a mismatch.

Tyson KO's him

I mean.. you guys are talking about a guy who got STRETCHED by Rahman.. by one right hand..

Tyson at least when whupped it took a LOT..

Lennox has been stoppped by Rahman and Mcall..

what people talk about Tyson *his power*.. IMO it really wasn't that that made him great.. it was his speed..
Tyson's speed was RIDICULOUS in his prime.. head movement and handspeed.. he would get inside and stop Lemmon like a bum

 

Medusa Lewis, is by far and away the superior fighter, and is infact the greatest of all-time, little Mohammed Ali wouldn't stand a chance with his 1-2 clinch against a monster like Lewis with his eye splittin' pole vault jab,..

Medusa, and EASILY..

Tyson is dead last in this cluster.

 

I said he was dq'd. He was told by the ref if he lowered his head again that was it. Bowe lowered his head and then acted like he didn't give two shits that he was dq'd. At least comprehend the posts when you are stalking, tiny tim.

 

lewis wasn't quick enough nor was his punches fluid enough to beat a young tyson. tyson would've fucked him up w/ an over right hand and knocked him out cold.

 

:bears:

 

I would say that Douglas "almost getting KOed" against Tyson is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

I wouldn't remember Don trying to get a immediate rematch as when watched on tape Douglas was down for like 14 seconds

 

You're right...the ref should have stopped the fight when Douglas struggled to get to his feet and looked glazed as he (barely) stood in front of the ref with his mouthpiece in backwards. Oh, wait...that wasn't Douglas. Douglas was the one who appeared clear-headed as he followed the ref's count, got up in time and didn't look in danger of being stopped.

 

Yeah, HBO crushed the long count myth during their replay of the fight one week later.