Fights where a fighter's stock rises despite losing

i disagree. Johnson fought a very smart fight against RJJ and showed a tremendous chin. It's not like he didn't take a lot of shots from RJJ - he just wasn't imtimidated or hurt by them the way so many of the bums RJJ beat were. I'm not saying RJJ hadn't declined somewhat by the time he faced Johnson, but Johnson's approach of staying low, and staying close, moving his head and throwing a lot of punches, and his willingness to trade with RJJ was something RJJ hadn't dealt with hardly at all in his career. Johnson didn't allow RJJ to control the pace of the fight - that made a huge difference.

I think Johnson doesn't get enough credit for that win - all the talk is that RJJ was just shot. Shot fighters don't have the kind of hand-speed RJJ continues to demonstrate.

 

Yeah, I don't think he was shot in that fight. He did take it relatively soon after the Tarver knockout and he was in against a style that was all wrong for him.

I think it's a similar case to Erik Morales and Manny Pacquiao. I don't think Morales was shot, but bad style for him at that stage.

Being diminished is diffferent from shot.

 

jones had been declining for years. he looked greatly dimished when I saw him live against gonzalez. and he looked really bad against harmon. his legs aren't nearly what they were and that was before he went up and back down from heavy.

 

Ruben Castillo? The same guy Laporte defeated in his first title defense and that before Sanchez, Alexis Arguello put to sleep? But Castillo lost an easy UD to Sanchez. Patrick Ford took Sanchez to hell, gave him a bleeding nose and lost by split decision.

 

Trinidad vs.Vargas

 

I wonder if you could know less about boxing. Larry Holmes jab was one of the greatest punches in boxing history. Funny, that almost every well known fighter in that era Norton,Frazier, Shavers, Ali for example ...all state that Holmes has never gotten his due. He was a great fighter. I honestly think, he'd have beaten a prime Ali and Foreman. Foreman admits that he never ever wanted a piece of holmes then or now. I think you should join a knitting site. You are out of your league here.

 

Floyd really shitted in his mouth

 

Castillo hardly lost 'an easy' UD to Sanchez. That was one of the toughest fights of Sal's career and he was in a few.

 

Hang on a second....

Holmes didn't have many close calls as champion. Weaver gave him some trouble, but Holmes eventually got him out of there. Shavers and Snipes knocked him down and had him in some trouble, but Holmes dominated both fights otherwise and was way ahead on the scorecards when he stopped both opponents. Witherspoon and Carl Williams both gave him good fights, but Holmes deserved the decision in both cases. Bonecrusher Smith did better than expected, but Holmes never looked in danger of losing.

Granted, Holmes' competition could have been better but I don't see where Holmes was "champion for years by the skin of his teeth" as you put it.

 

Yep. Castillo was a good fighter, he just couldn't seem to win the big one.

 

Ok. But he nearly loses to Witherspoon (some thought he lost), and was nearly knocked out by Snipes, and many people didn't even think he beat Norton.

Virtually all of his wins were by the skin of his teeth. He was not dominant in any sense of the word. And yet people act like he was somehow unbeatable.

You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Why don't you disappear again. It saved us all the hassle of reading your dribble.

 

both castillo and laporte gave sanchez tough fights. so did that lanky african.

 

thank you. anyone who doesn't think castillo gave a good account of himself against sanchez obviously didn't watch the fight. at one point in the mid rounds i think the announcers had him winning.

 

Holmes made 20 title defenses. How many of them were close fights?

I still don't get where you get "Virtually all of his wins were by the skin of his teeth."

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't understand how you came to this conclusion.

 

There is no shame in having a close fight with Norton. It's not like Norton was a bum. Hell...Ali had all he wanted (and then some) from Norton three different times.

 

If I remember correctly Tim was a hard fighter to figure because he used a peek a boo style which Holmes had issues with. Besides that Tim wasn't some slouch either he was a damn good fighter at times

 

No where have I said Holmes wasn't a good fighter. So I'm not taking anything away from his wins. But he wasn't the brilliant fighter that so many people seem to think he was.

He fought a lot of crappy competition, and the competition he fought that wasn't crappy, he nearly lost to.

Good fighter? Yes. Great and dominant fighter who was unbeatable? Not by a long shot.

 

You contradict yourself within two sentences. Too damn funny.

 

No I don't. Apparently, you need to look up the word, "contradict." Because nowhere have I done such a thing in my post.

I can give him credit for his wins without considering him brilliant. It'd be stupid to suggest that I couldn't. And even dumber to imply that the two are mutually exclusive.

 

What about when you said this???

That doesn't sound like you are giving Holmes credit for his wins. And like I asked before. Holmes made 20 defenses. How many of them did he win
"by the skin of his teeth"?? Be specific, please.