What names come to mind as fighters who seemed to out-grow 140, but who didn't seem to have the size to compete at 147. Here's my first stab: 1. Cotto 2. Judah 3. Chavez 4. Hatton 5. JL Castillo 6. Antonio Diaz 7. Gatti Who else? For some reason the move from 140 to 147 seems more significant than most others (for example, 126 to 130, or 160 to 168). I seem to recall many a fighter who enjoyed success at 140, but having moved up to 147, couldn't compete at the same level.
castillo didn't even have the size (or faculties) to compete at 140. he was already used up by the time he arrived
Interesting thread. I agree with most on the list. Miguel Cotto is a small welterweight considering he is only 5"7, However he is a very strong welterweight. He just happened to face arguably the strongest fighter @147.
I think he had the size. He was definitely passed his prime by the time he got there, and his only significant win there was by the skin of his teeth. But I think it had more to do with his being over the hill than his not being big enough. His could definitely still put a hurt on guys at 140 (Ngoudju for example), whereas my guess is even in his prime he would not have had success at 147.
We shall see. My guess is his best days are behind him. And maybe it's not attributable to the weight. But we'll see. He definitely needs to reestablish himself among the elite after being stopped in the fashion he was. For example, would you necessarily pick Cotto to beat Cintron? Williams? I think he's going to have trouble beating larger welter-weights, whether their names are Margarito or not. Time will tell. But if big guys are able to back him up the way Margarito was, he's gonna have a lot of trouble beating them.
We never got to see Tszyu at 147 but i doubt he would have done very well there unless he was put in stylistically favorable matchups.
i agree with your statement but i didn't include him on the list because technically he retired before he out-grew 140. so he doesn't qualify in that he was never, "too big for 140." nonetheless, i agree with you - he would've struggled a lot at 147 against the big boys (the future 154 and 160 pounders). Vince Phillips occurs to me as a guy who was much more lethal at 140 than he ever was at 147. But again, like Castillo, it's difficult to separate the effects of his getting old from the effect of moving up in weight.
Really? I wouldn't. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't be confident in my pick. I'm pretty sure Williams could keep Cotto at bay and might even be able to back him up later in the fight, the way Margarito did. And Cintron? I wouldn't rule out his ability to straight up knock Cotto on his ass. He'd probably have a better shot at beating Cintron, but neither fight would be easy for him IMO. And I can imagine him losing both.
Actually Vince Phillips is probably the very best example you can come up with - save for Hatton, perhaps. Vince was borderline unbeatable at 140, but couldn't accomplish anything at 147. You're thinking of Phillips that fought Vernon Forrest, but even before the Tszyu fight he strugged beyond mediocrity at welterweight.
Yup. I think every one of his losses was at 147 for a long time. Ike Quartey handed him his ass in 1996 and I forgot what other welter beat him prior. Anyway, he was pretty sick at 140.
Cintron is a mental midget. I wouldnt rule out him knocking Cotto out, cause he is a mental midget with a huge right hand, but the most likely scenario is Cotto breaking Kerm to the body and stopping him late. And Williams doesnt have the power to wear Cotto down the way Marg did. And Paul, despite his height, is a very easy target. Cotto would find him alot. Plus Paul has never really been tested to the body in his career. Thats something Cotto would do. When it comes 147, its like this. I'd favor Cotto over any welter except for Marg. I'd favor Marg over any welter except for Williams. And I'd favor Williams over any welter except for Cotto.
cotto is on this list AFTER he gets his ass kicked by margarito. go figure. i thought cotto looked like a beast when he beat down quintana and judah. mosley is also a strong welter and it appeared as though cotto had matched him strength (although a young mosley would've beaten him the fuck up).
good point !!! maybe Cotto doesn't belong on the list. i just think in addition to Marg there's other welterweights that can beat Cotto. and that would mean as a welterweight, Cotto is inferior compared to his time at 140. maybe i'm wrong. i'm not trying to discredit Margarito. and maybe every welterweight except Marg would've been knocked out by the combinations Cotto landed on him. not sure. notice however that Judah is on the list of welterweights who haven't had much success since moving up from 140. as for Mosley and Quintana, i'm starting to doubt Quintana's durability in a big way, and i actually thought Mosley, as over the hill as he is, pulled out the victory over Cotto. i know most disagree with that assessment but i've watched the fight over and over and maintain that Mosley deserved the decision. Also, Mosley doesn't have the height advantage that i think will be key to any fighter who expects to beat him.
Aaron Pryor is also a guy but he took a few years off then went to 147 where he never did much but imho was shot before he jumped in weight.
I've always felt the same way about Pryor. A great at 140, to be sure, but I never thought he'd be able to handle the likes of Leonard, Hearns , Curry, Starling, McCrory, etc...
