What was Bernard Hopkins best win?

Has to be one of his wins over Robert Allen.

Or maybe Tarver...he's the only fighter on the list that hadn't recently moved up before fighting Hopkins (or moved up to fight Hopkins).

 

meant to type "BEFORE that he went..." :warning:

 

Tito just had destroyed the other Middleweight champ, almost nobody said size would be a factor in this fight before the fight. Only once Hopkins dominated Tito with superior strategy and execution, some people started to bring that up. IMO, size had little to do with Hopkins' victory, the same can be said of his win against Pavlik. It's not like he mugged them and tired them out by wrestling, he outboxed them... And I think Pavlik might even be bigger than Nard...

 

You are dead on. In retrospect people love to diminish the quality of opposition. But Tito was a young destroyer and favored to emerge from the tournament as the new MW king. Hopkins, who was basically living in the huge Roy Jones MW shadow, finally had a chance to demonstrate his skills on a big stage. Beating Tito was huge, but the way he absolutely destroyed Trinidad was resounding.

The Pavlik and Tarver wins are only slightly behind Tito in my opinion simply because of age and odds. Both were also shocking wins because of ease in which they were earned.

 

I like that fight where lil Antwun Echols was busting Hopkins up real bad, had him in serious, serious trouble, before Mills Lane lightly brushed past his shoulder and Hopkins falls down acting as if he'd been blown in the chest by a shotgun, and subsequently he rats his way out of an inevitable loss. Not many people talk about that,....

War Hopkins.

 

That was undoubtedly my favorite Hopkins knockout. I always hated the fact that the fight got lost in the shuffle through the years - it aired on ABC as an appetizer for the Tyson-Bruno II PPV card later that evening. That Tyson won a belt in that fight overshadowed everything else that took place that day/night.

What I liked most about it was that as you mentioned Lipsey talked mad shit beforehand - pretty much the moment he was named Hopkins' mandatory. They were supposed to fight two months prior on Fox, but Lipsey pulled out very late and dude who replaced him got lit in like 14 seconds. Anyway, Lipsey ultimately got his in one of Hopkins' most complete performances.

My personal favorite was the Glen Johnson fight. To me that was Bernard at his absolute best. But with all things considered (Johnson was a contender at the time, but achieved more far later in his career), I say this weekend was his best win.

The Winky fight is a good pull on name value only. It was a disgusting fight to watch, and a pot-bellied Winky had no business at 170.

The Tarver fight was impressive in that Antonio was the top light heavy. But again, a snoozer of a fight, and Tarver looked like shit before and since that fight.

I pick Pavlik because, despite his moving up, Kelly's a massive-sized middleweight and is at the prime of his career. That he's ineffective beyond that weight is something he'll have to contend with, because he can't make 160 forever.

I don't discount the weight like I would w/ the Winky fight, because Wink's ceiling is 160. That, plus Kelly being in his prime while Winky's on the other side of it, not to mention Hopkins' far greater dominance in this fight, without making it a shitty stinkfest, IMO gives this performance the edge.

 

Pavlik is Bernard's best win. He was a freaking 4-1 dog for god sake. He beat a undefeated fighter in his prime at the age of 43.

Tito was a good win, but he was never a great MW and was much smaller than Hops.

 

Are you implying Pavlik's a great middleweight?

I mean what did he do to deserve such accolades?

 

I'd argue he's done more at middleweight than Trinidad had.

But they didn't fight at middleweight.

DLH, Wright and Palik were in weight classes they didn't belong at the time they fought Hopkins...I don't see why they're included in this.

 

Of course, he's a career middleweight, and he's way bigger than Tito. But I don't think he's a great middleweight, not yet. He still has time though, if he's able to recover from the humiliation, he might become one, he's still very young.

I think you put way too much emphasis on the weight issue, Pavlik's a big dude, probably bigger than Hops. Hops speed and boxing acumen beat Pavlik, not his reach or his strenght.

 

I agree,... at De La Hoya especially,... it really doesn't leave Hopkins with much....does it.. .. I think, the messageboard,
may infact,.......... be overrating the fuck out of him as usual..

 

What's a proper rating for Hopkins then?

 

Trinidad was a p4p fighter, granted, but most of that was done south of 160 and the template of how to outbox him was clearly evident in the DLH, Reid and Vargas fights...which came below 160.

Hopkins, given his skills and size and intelligence, was much more able to put it together for an entire fight...but Trinidad was a susceptible fighter to getting out-boxed...and he'd put down numerous times at 147 and 154.

Trinidad was a good fighter, a p4p one, but there were more ways to beat him long before Hopkins fought him, at a weight more natural to him.

Tarver, given the name and circumstances, was probably his biggest accomplishment.

 

:nono: Well,.. definitely BELOW Roy Jones for one,..

I mean,.. really,...:nono::nono::nono: how dare people..

 

Honestly - Pavlik. Sure Pavlik might have been slightly overrated, but it's mainly that Nard made him look that way.

Out of all the aforementioned fighters, Pavlik is the ONLY one that was prime and close to his natural weight, and Bernard's size. Tarver was bigger of course, but fairly washed up.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to pick Tito. Sure it was a much publicised win, and Nard was a 3 to 1 underdog, but tito was a fucking career welterweight, and wasn't even that good anyway, he should have already received a loss from de la lovesongs.

Both Tarver and Pavlik are much better wins than Tito.

And Pavlik gets my vote in part because at age 43, that was just a fuckign unreal performance, you have to factor his age into it as well, that was an incredible accomplishment on Saturday night.

 

It might have been obvious to you, but Hopkins was still a bigger underdog in this fight than in the Pavlik fight. And before the Tito fight, Hopkins was more relying on mugging tactics and close quarter battles than on his boxing skills. Not a lot of people expected him to box as beatifully as he did. It was really his coming out party. And as I said, the size difference was brought up after the fact, not before as Tito looked like a juggernaught in his destruction of Joppy (a fighter that wasn't knocked out as viciously before or after this fight in his long career BTW). As I said to Sly, I won't argue with anyone that says Tarver, or Pavlik, was a greater victory, but I stand on my position, Tito was IMHO his greatest victory.

Weight issues were only brought up after the fact in all of these fight. (People said Tarver had to shed a lot of weight to fight Hopkins too)

 

Fuck you.:flip: (Will you ever be able to respectfully disagree with people?)

I thought nard was a 5-1 underdog BTW.

 

I'd put the Trinidad win above Pavlik. By a decent margin.

 

tito knocked the lights outta joppy in msg and folks were overlooking the hopkins fight and said tito would knock roy jones out.

considering the odds, hype and significance of that fight, that was clearly a career-defining win for hopkins.

 

Career defining? Yes of course, it was a huge win, and finally put Nard on the map proper.

But the best win? No.

Nard being equally dominant over Pavlik at age 43 is more impressive. Pavlik was closer to his natural weight, was legitimately undefeated, was the same size as Hopkins, was a big puncher, with a normally excellent workrate.

Tito was a big punching welterweight who was already beaten by Oscar.

And at age 43, the win is superb. There is a big difference in boxing between 43 and 36 (the age I think he was against Tito).

At age 36 fighters can just about still do it if they are lucky (Mosley for example) - at age 43 fighters simply shoudn't be competing at this level, and usually can't, at all, usually totally shot.

This win is easily his best. Tito was more career defining of course, but talking raw impressiveness, and the greatness of the actual performance, the Pavlik win is the best, hands down. Even nard himself feels it's his best performance.

 

No, he's not great, but he is the MW champ at the moment and was coming in undefeated. He's also a giant, hard hitting actual middle weight. Where as Tito was small.

 

Yeah, but Trinidad was actually fighting at middleweight.

 

I would have to say the Tito fight. I say that for all the reasons listed but I would also add that when B-Hop threw the PR flag down not only twice but in PR that added so much fuel to the hype that made the atmosphere and the fight very exciting. I'll Holla 5000

 

Pavlik started his career at MW. He's clearly a bigger stronger guy. Neither guy faced Hopkins at thier best weight.

 

Tarver and that is about his only respectable win in his career.

I thought the Winky fight was a draw and it was disgusting.

LMAO, at people thinking his beating the much smaller DLH or Trinidad. If anything, Pavlik is a better version of Trinidad, essentially a retarded baboon with gloves but Kelly is bigger and yet still smaller than Bhop.

 

But Trinidad had actually done something noteworthy at the weight he fought Hopkins at.

Pavlik had no business - outside of money, and some over-eager match-making (if not steering) - at 170 against hopkins.

 

True, but it's hard to look at Joppy as "doing something" in hindsight. I'll give you that though. ::

 

Exactly, the only reason this win is even worth talking about his Hopkins' age. It is funny to me that DLH who has the best level of comp in the last 10 to 15 years of any fighter and most mooks here say he had advantages. Hopkins drags a guy up two weight class, a guy who relies on strength and stamina because he has no skill and suddenly Hopkins is better than everyone thought. LOL, fight fans are moody bitches. This victory does nothing in my ranking of Hopkins, nothing.

 

I agree 100%