Watching the Hopkins-Pavlik replay...

Its bullshit that Pavlik "wasnt himself". He was the same basic, offensive one two puncher he always is. Only Hopkins wasnt a stationary target who stayed at the end of his punches like Taylor. He's just lucky Hopkins isnt younger. A prime Hopkins would've stopped him within 8.

 

A prime Hopkins would have won a UD. Just like he did on Saturday.

 

Negative. A prime Hopkins would have stopped him.

 

What's a prime Hopkins?... Hopkins verses a mismandatory midget scrub back in 1998?... It's hardly a gauge considering he's fighter larger, better quality opponents these days..

As to the thread,... ofcourse his excuses are bullshit,.. as I've said before,.. isn't it amazing that there is always some very CRIPPLING thing that happens when out of all the occasions they've stepped out to fight 20 or 30 times in thier careers, 'coincidentally' it's against the tougher opponents that they obtain some condition we all didn't know about, that 'prevents them from winning' .

 

Right, Pavlik is too tough. MW version of Hopkins didn't had enough power to stop him. Plus he fought differently. He used to trade more, which was a no-no against Pavlik. This was the classic Experience vs. Youth, Veteran vs. Young Champ schooling.

 

GTFOH. Hopkins nhad Pavlik hurt and wobbly a few times the other night. He hit hard enough to stop Glen Johnson, who is a damn sight tougher than Kelly Pavlik.

Kelly is gone in less than 7 or 8 rounds.

 

Glen Johnson's corner stopped the fight. Bernard never dropped him or seriously hurt him. Plus Johnson got known at higher weights. Kelly Pavlik is a tough SOB.

 

before hopkins was skeletor at '60 he was able to do everysinglething he did last week plus take it to opponents and outphysical them. pavlik wouldve been done by round 6 vs a prime hopkins.

 

He's got heart, but he's been down or hurt in a few fights now and has only ever fought one serious puncher. Kelly is not a Glen Johnson caliber tough guy.

And Glen's corner stopped the fight because Hopkins beat the fucking piss out of him. Like what he would do against Pavlik. He only threw 40 odd punches a round the other night. In his prime, Hopkins was a 70 punch a round guy. Kelly would have been in hell.

 

Word...Hopkins had Calzaghe down as well not so very long ago, and though it was more of a button/momentum KD, dropping Joe isn't something you do if you are deficient in power. That bastard has some chin.

Kelly has heart, sure, but he isn't exactly proficient in the chin area. It isn't Amir Khan-esque, certainly, but his beard isn't particularly strong

A prime Hopkins would have stoppped Pavlik through sheer momentum and number of shots landed. He only didn't stop him at 43 because he can only throw a limited number of shots per round before having a breather.

MTF :dunno:

 

For christ's sake, he couldn't stop keith holmes man. maybe with a well place shot he could've dropped kelly, but not stopping him. When was exactly his prime? To me he was still in his physical prime when he fought Trinidad and he was already diminished when he fought Joppy. Also, he wasn't an elusive fighter back then, he got dropped too. His win over Pavlik had more to do with him not being hit. He's a late bloomer, that's what I'm trying to say, and the fact that he schooled Pavlik late in his career doesn't mean that he would've stopped him in his earlier form.

 

I agree with some of that, but the point is still valid- Hopkins only didn't stop Pavlik because he is now physically incapable of putting together the VOLUME of shots required for him to do that job. He had Pavlik in bad trouble in a number of spots (especially the 7th and the 12th) but couldn't put him away because he can't throw enough at that age. That has little to do with any discrepancy in POWER; now or back in Hopkins 'prime' (whenever that was), and when you factor in the fact that Pavlik doesn't have a particularly good chin, it makes the stoppage much more likely even against the Hopkins of a couple of years ago IMHO

MTF

 

Even if there is any truth to Pavlik being sick or just flat out having a bad night, the outcome would have been the same. Perhaps a bit more competitive but the same.

Kelly was still throwing a lot of shots, his stamina looked good and he absorbed a lot of shots. He just couldn't make the necessary adjustments.

Calzaghe was able to make the adjustments and that's one of the major reasons he was able to beat Bernard.

Pavlik's basic style is good enough to have him take out very good fighters, but not of Hopkins' style and calibre.

 

I agree. I think there might be SOME truth to the sickness, or having a bad day, because he looked like fucking shit even when Nard wasn't doing much.

So I think he would do better in a rematch, but clearly he doesn't have what it takes to beat Nard, even at 100% he would lose clearly.

 

Pavlik footwork never been great...but Hopkins just exposed the shit out of it with his movement......Pavlik legs are out of place for the first 3 rounds...so far..

 

Pavlik is just not very good. Hopkins took this fight for that reason. I am not surprised at all. I said so in so many words that no matter what happened this would be a disaster for Pavlik. Arum really fucked up. Pavlik is a slightly better version of Trinidad. BHop loves straight forward mummies. He'd beat either one of them if he were 50. Styles make fights. Bhop will always own heavy footed straight forward attackers.

 

Bullshit...Trinidad is alot better than Pavlik....

 

The fuck he is. Pavlik would kayo tito at 160 , prime v prime. Tito wouldn't beat JT either. Beating bums at 147 does not make you great. Getting gift decisions does not make you great. Losing by a country mile to Winky and Bhop does not make you great. His best victory, over Vargas does not make you great.

 

Maybe.

But Pavlik would have probably been the toughest title challenge of Bernard's middleweight reign.

 

Trinidad might not be Great(HE IS) at 160 vs. Pavlik/Taylor..who knows we didn't see enough of a PRIME TRINIDAD at 160 because he retired..both fights are 50/50 maybe a slight advantage to Trinidad...Trinidad right hand is very good...and his Left hook and JAB are better than both Pav/Taylor...

 

Pavlik is good, and given the right style he can beat some good fighters. Anybody who stands stationary in front of him is asking for trouble. Thats why he'd most likely beat Abraham, though its no guarantee cuz Abraham can punch like hell.

But guys with speed, who give angles will always give be a nightmare for Kelly. The guy just has EXTREMELY slow feet, and for the most part is very basic in his attack.

Thats why Hopkins embarassed him, and its why Calz and Kessler would beat the hell outta him.

JT had the talent to beat him, but Taylor just isnt a smart fighter at all, and his footwork has always sucked.

 

I completely agree. Tito is one of the most overrated fighters ever, alongside Hamed.

Tito never beat an elite fighter, it's as simple as that. In fact, everytime he fought an elite fighter, he basically got clowned.

Pavlik might have been clowned against Nard, but he does hold two victories over Taylor, who might look like a jittery turd at times, but is a proven elite fighter, with 2 victories over Nard himself, or at worst - 2 close losses.

Tito would not have beaten Taylor.

 

Umm lemme get this straight... a 43 year old Hopkins has an EXTREMELY easy time handling a prime Pav, yet the prime B-Hop would struggle?:laughing::laughing::laughing:

PLEASE dont say its due to weight! Cause the fashion B-Hop beat his ass had nothing to do with weight.

Pavlik would have been the EASIEST fight of Hopkins reign. The late 90's, early 00's Hopkins stops Pavlik within 8.

 

Trinidad beat Vargas..who has a close victory/or as you might say a close loss to WINKY WRIGHT(ELITE)...when Vargas only had 14/15 fights....and IKE QUARTEY(ELITE) who Vargas beat 8-4 ....


VARGAS > TAYLOR

 

::

I like Vargas a lot, I was always a big fan, even if he was a stupid Cholo.

But Vargas is not an elite fighter, everyone knows this. He came close, but always fell short.

Tito is just one level above Vargas, and also not an elite fighter.

 

The Joppy version of Tito stops both Pavlik and Taylor. Neither of those guys possesed the footwork, and skills to duplicate what Hopkins did.

 

He beat Winky and Quartey thats alot better than beating JERMAINE TAYLOR....

 

You are a moron.

 

You are the moron for thinking Pavlik is better than Trinidad...

 

Tito is not a great fighter. It is a fact. He is not now or never was a great fighter. This is another issue I take heat for. I said Calzaghe was good. 90% of the board said I was worthless outside of being funny. I was proven right. I said Winky would beat Shane, he beat Vargas was elite. Same thing.

Tito's career is over and he never came close to beating an elite fighter. Sorry, but that is a fact. Even his best victory over Vargas was ill gotten. He had to foul and chat his way to victory.