Watching the Hopkins-Pavlik replay...

It isn't a hard standard to reach. Why even argue, if you think Tito was a great fighter you know nothing about boxing. If TITO WERE mEXICAN, you'd be on my side. You guys are from the same shithole and thus you love him. He was not a great fighter. It is a fact. Great fighters tdo not lose in a lopsided faSHION to every elite fighter they ever fight.

 

I'm not sure why Pavlik would need to duplicate what Hopkins did.

I'm really not sure how Trinidad would last twelve rounds against Pavlik.

Pavlik's huge size and strength advantage would've been a lot to overcome for Tito, who was never that strong at 160.

I think he'd have to adjust his style to fight Pavlik and I don't think he's ever shown he was capable of that.

Trinidad never had a great chin, was never that good defensively, and was never that cognizant of the incoming when he punched - which is why he was dropped so many times throughout his career.

 

In other words, Tito was not that good.

 

Name me a challenger to Hopkins in his prime.......that you would make a favorite over Pavlik.

Hopkins defended his belt against the best there was to fight.......but not a verry good bunch, minus his career defining fight against Trinidad.

Trinidad is the only guy Hopkins defended his title against, that I would favor over Pavlik.

 

True Free,.. what's particularly alarming amongst the rotational fouling Trinidad required for victory against Vargas, was the fact that he was armed with the wraps,...so he nailed Fernando's testicles and temples with concrete gauze, and Vargas still went a competitive 12.

Cant or moreso,.. wouldn't want to horrify myself with the thoughts of what Pavlik would do to Vargas with brass knucks.

 

As lmited as Pavlik is, I'd pick him comfortably over Tito at 160. It would be a demolition, IMHO...

MTF

 

tito wasn't a middleweight, never been... He was a natural welterweight, with some great potential at 154 lbs. That's why he got beaten so easily by Wright and Bernard. The size difference was vast enough that his power wasn't the same coming up. Yeah, he knocked Joppy silly, but that's not saying much since all Joppy did was expose his chin and throw his hands out stupidly. Trinidad was more about excitement than greatness. He was GREAT for boxing, he was never a GREAT boxer.

 

Means nothing. Stylewise Hopkins would always beat Pavlik, and easily. Even easier than he did Echols. Echols wasnt as good as Pavlik, but he was quicker and more unpredictable, which gave B-Hop marginal trouble in thier first fight. Pavlik is plodding, and straight forward at ANY weight. Hopkins would always easily take target practice on him.

Pavlik just isnt in the same league as Hopkins. His hype is all based on beating Taylor, and believe me... if Hop was at his 160 best, Taylor would have been a never was.

B-Hop beats Pavlik's ass 101 times outta 100, and does so easily 99 of those times.

 

Weight gets sooooo overrated on this forum! Well for one Wright is no middleweight either. I dont buy the size as an excuse for his losses to Wright and Hopkins. He lost to them cause those guys were simply better. Hopkins beats Tito easily everytime, even if they were the same natural size. Wright and a prime Tito at 154 would have been closer, but Wright still wins.

And Tito was hardly small at middleweight. He physically made a natural middle in Joppy seem like a little boy in comparison.

Size advantage aside, pre-Hopkins Tito KO's Pavlik. He was quick enough back then to time Pav with some counters, and I cant see Pav's chin reacting well to Tito's power at all. But unlike Taylor, if Tito got Pav in trouble, he wouldnt let him off the hook.

If you pick Pavlik over Tito at 160, I have no problem with it though. Its a matchup thats up for debate.

Only thing thats not debatable is that a young Hopkins would have stopped Pavlik. Thats pretty apparent.

 

Tito would ko kelly, i said this years ago when people was on kellys nuts, people thought i was crazy, i still stand by that now, kelly is a cool guy but hes not that good, hes too easy too touch, if miranda touched him early, what do u think tito would do, the boy aint got no defence, tito brutalizes this guy.

 

i wish we could ressurect some old post, half yall mutha fuckas was saying kelly would ko tommy hearns, and some said he could beat ray lenoard, and drop ray. some of yall are some silly mutha fuckas

 

dsimon writes:

I watched the fight again and thought Pavlik beat Hopkins. :doh::atu:

 

I think prime for prime Tito and Pavlik at 160 is a toss up. Both can punch neither can box well and both have weak chins.

I don't see how you think Tito is so much better than Pavlik. Hopkins is one thing but let's remember that Tito was also dominated by Hopkins for 12 rounds.

Tito's best work was at 147-154 at 160 he never proved to be better than Pavlik style wise or with his resume.

 

dominated by a younger and better bernard, if pavlik faught the fight he had to fight to win the fight, he would have been laying on his back just like tito. pavlik is not on titos level, he has one name on his resume, he is a long goofy bastard, tito would break this guys face

 

I expect more from you. Pavlik would kill Tito. Tito was NOT a puncher at 160. I bet Miranda and JT hit harder AT middleweight. I never thought much of Kelly and you and I were the ONLY ones to say this while the know nothings said he'd kayo Tommy and Gay Ray. You have lost your goddamn mind if you think Tito even last 12 with Kelly. Neither guy has defense but KP is a middleweight and Tito was not or at best a small middle. Kelly is a huge middle.

 

Yeah, shame on people who actually make their predictions beforehand

 

Were there even people who thought Pavlik would beat Ray Leonard??? :dunno:

 

I don't remember anyone saying Pavlik would beat Leonard or Hearns.

In fact, regarding Pavlik I only remember one stupid thing having been said, and I think it was Double L saying he would have a chance Vs prime Roy. Other than that, people weren't overrating Pavlik that much really.

Mass - Pavlik would knock Tito the fuck out, now or then. He is just a bigger, natural middleweight version of tito with a better chin.

Both slow, flat footed punchers. Tito has a better left hook, Pavlik has a better jab, better right hand, and better chin. Both have pretty good stamina.

And Pavlik is the naturally bigger guy. Tito wouldn't be able to get out of the way of his shots, and would be sparked.

 

You said he´d waste Abraham. That was an overreaction.:boohoo:

 

dsimon writes:

Most people said this. I thought so myself until Abrahams last fight. When I got to watch him I realized he is a better fighter than I had imagined and at that point it looked like a colse fight with him and Pavlik (before the Hopkins fight before!).

 

lets not get carried away..

I don't know WHO said Pav would stretch Tommy Hearns::

but he will whup.. and stretch ARGOBUM!!!

 

when i get time im going to find the thread, i only remeber beause i was argueing with people over it, they said he would ko tommy, but lose to ray, after knocking ray down in the fight. and it was more than one person arguing me with me over this

 

dsimon writes:

I remember that thread... you may be right but if I remember correctly one of the people was Double L so that does not count.

Mass if we ever get into it refer to this thread where I say "I rewatched the fight and had Pavlik beating Hopkins." :: I bet I can also get Double to agree

 

No it wasn't, I simply don't think Arab ham is very good. He could barely beat howard fucking eastman for fuck's sake.

I have to admit, I would be less sure of Pavlik beating him now than I was before, because Nard really did make him look like a complete bum. But Arab ham is not Nard.

 

no wonder you got sensative to my post, you are one of the silly mutha fuckas who gave pavlik the edge over hearns, kill yourself

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20491&highlight=pavlik

 

Eastman won more rounds against Hopkins than Pavlik. ::

 

Pavlik is overrated. Abraham is garbage. Pavlik would walk right over him. I don't care if he even has 50% confidence now. LOl, Eastman won more rounds against Abraham than Abraham won against Eastman. Bad example, silly kraut.

 

Petre had a fight party with 25 people over to watch this fight on his 196" inch plasma flat screen.

On the higher resolution TV 24 out of 25 people at Petre's party thinks Pavlik won going away. The other had it a draw.

:bears:

 

dsimon writes:

I remember that thread also. :bears: