Okay, let's stop with the "Oscar was shot and weight drained" angle...

Straight from Nachos mouth, it wasn't a weight issue, it was a speed issue.

 

Still doesn't make him any less shot.

 

Yep. It was more the opponent than the weight.
Pacman's style showed us how far removed DLH was from his prime

However, some people just see what they decide to see...

I'm sure that they would blame the difference in Evanders performance between the Rahman fight & the Byrd fight on "weight drain" if they heard that he had to cut a lot of weight.
-I mean he did look slower against Byrd than Rahman-and it couldn't possibly be anything to do with the opponent's style now could it?

 

Exactly.

That's the thing that bothers me about this whole fight. I knew Pacquiao was going to win, but I almost cringed at the thought it would be by stoppage (even though I was happy at the time). I just knew if Pac won by stoppage, the entire "Monday Morning QB" community would say "Oscar is shot" or "Oscar was weight drained", when 95% of them picked Oscar to dominate.

I just feel Nacho would know more about Oscar's physical health than anyone else here.

 

So I guess you'd pick that version of Pacquiao over the prime version of Oscar at WW if his decline has nothing to do with what happened saturday night.:atu:

 

.....

I wonder why Oscar hadn't fought a lefty in 11 years.

 

I was one of those who picked DLH to stop Manny.
I also voiced concern about the weight loss.

I do think DLH is clearly past-prime, & I also think that it was reasonable to make the assumption that weight-loss could be a factor.

However I have to be honest with myself.
You can look @ the fight through the prism of that assumption & conclude certain things.

Without that prism, & being honest & objective though, DLH's performance had a LOT more to do with the difference in opponent than the difference in weight

 

What's was Oscar's prime years in your opinion?

 

Chris Byrd's physique looked spectacular too and there was no report of him having trouble with his weight against George

 

Now THAT was weight-drain.
However that case just proves that weight-drain can affect a fighter.
I'm sure we all understand that.

I wouldn't expect to hear anything about weight trouble leading up to a fight from a fighters camp. Was there any talk at all from Byrd's trainer post-fight regarding Byrd's weight, though Ugotabe Kidding?

 

I think it was a variety of factors. Pac fighting a brilliant fight, DLH going down in weight, Pac's southpaw style, Pac's speed, etc...

I never thought DLH would fight at welterweight again, he had been saying he'd go back down since after the Hopkins fight, but I felt he'd outgrown the weight. I had hoped going in that DLH would be compromised by making 147, because I thought Pacquiao was too small and figured it'd help Manny's chances if DLH had trouble with the weight. In recent years, fighters in their mid 30s (RJJ, SRL, Byrd) have had trouble when dropping down in weight. But I never would've thought that DLH would lose every second of the fight.

DLH hadn't fought a lefty since Camacho in 1997. Pac had a field day with the straight left. He was hitting DLH with a straight left and sliding out, like he often did versus Larios. I was worried that when sliding to his right after landing the straight left, he'd run into a left hook. But Pac's defense was really on point, and DLH just looked slow and off. DLH did look shot.

I'm really impressed by Pacquiao's longevity. He's not a spring chicken. He's a 30 year old with a very high-octane style who's been fighting professionally since he was what, 16?

 

Yes Chris Byrd's weight loss was ridiculous, over 40 pounds by some estimates. Oscar was 7 pounds away from his previous weightclass, not exactly the same thing.

Also Byrd got his ass kicked by Povetkin recently before the fight against George. He already showed signs of being shot there, where Oscar took Floyd to a SD recently before. No comparison.

 

Yeah, a guy with Pac's style should've been done 2 years ago, but his physical training regimen, and discipline during camp really shows. Not only that, but it's the food. :: Filipino blood is very rich.

 

I also really think that Pac raped DLH to the body. Oscar doubled over every time Pac went downstairs. I think that had a LOT to do with DLH's lack of mobility (and possibly jab).

 

Pac landed a vicious body shot in the 7th round right before he started pummeling Dela Hoya on the ropes the first time. You could tell Manny Steward was going to mention it because he began to speak, but that big mouth Jim Lampley talked over Steward, and the opportunity was missed.

You could tell though that Oscar felt it.

 

Not to take anything away from Pacman, he fought a great fight and it's a great win for him. Oscar just isn't even close to the fighter he once was though. That much is obvious.

 

Roach agrees too.

Even DLH's high cup couldn't help him from being raked downstairs.

 

Yep.
A lot of people are talking about how mystified they were @ DLH standing there & taking a beating in rnds 7&8.
What I saw was a guy who had been raped to the body & just didn't have any ability to do anything other than move away & defend.

 

hmmmmm

 

Do you have an opinion regarding this thread Mike?

 

FIX

 

you couldn't resist..GREAT VICTORY for PAC...but he beat.a SHOT weightdrained DE LA HOYA...Oscar hasn't fought at 147 in years..since the Mosley fight 8 years ago....said a bunch of times he could not make the weight..blah.blah...then for Pacquiao he comes down to 145?..and then couldn't gain that weight back...came into in fighting night at 147....HE WAS FUCKED!!!

 

Let's see, trust Nacho Beristain who was in camp with Dela Hoya for 2 months, or ILLUMINATI who post on fightbeat's forums.

I think I know whose word means A LOT more. ::

 

Me too. I think an example of your average high energy fighter is hatton, short shelf life.

Pacman is an absolute exception to the rule, like Duran, just an incredible specimen.

 

if your gonna use Nacho's statement to back up your claim than we have to also use Roach's statement on his last interview I saw yesterday on Maxboxing.

He said the Oscar's drop in weight did play a part. Especially when he only gained 2 more pounds. Roach said Oscar tried to come in lighter than Pacquiao and paid for it. He said whoever was his nutritionist did a terrible job.

I could tell Oscar was weight drained early in the fight when his legs would wobble. Pacquiao dindn't land anything meaningful early to hurt him. He was just outworking him.

I still give Pacquiao credit. But to assume Oscar's weight and shotness had nothing to do with it is fucking stupid.

you could already see Oscar gunshy on the Forbes fight last May. Hell there is a reason why on these last training camp both Ortiz and Valero took turns beating his ass.

 

Umm, Nacho trained Oscar, not Freddie.

Anyway, don't you have to make some predictions like "No one under batam beats Arce" and "Oscar by KO8"??? ::

 

Roach trained DLH too...

 

Not for this fight he didn't so he wouldn;t really know about Oscar's nutritionist and how he did his weight.

 

Precisely. :bears:

 

No but he said Oscar couldn't pull the trigger anymore though. That is more important than the weight issue. Oscar is shot.