I have no problem with people being upset over the fact that Lesnar got the shot at the title being 2-1, but I think he gets much more shit because of his stint as a WWE wrestler. If he was never a Pro Wrestler, he wouldn't get a fraction of the shit he gets. Look at how far up Sokoudjou's ass everyone was when he was only 4-1. There's a lot of people calling Mo Lowal the next great fighter and he's only 2-0. The difference is, they were never WWE wrestlers. Like I said, I understand why people are upset over him getting the shot, but on the other hand, I understand exactly why he got the shot, and like it or not, it made great business sense to do it, and at the end of the day, the UFC is a business, and it's a business that is succeeding in a sport where everyone else is failing in a big way. And from the outcome, it's fair to say Lesnar deserved the fight. The major difference between him and Kimbo was, EliteXC tried milking the Kimbo train as long as they could, which unfortunately, wasn't very long. But if EliteXC had any kind of faith in Kimbo's skill, you can be damn sure he would've gotten a title shot ASAP. But they knew better. They fed Kimbo a diet of ham and eggers, and he couldn't even handle Petruzelli. Brock on the other hand, jumped right into the fire and has fought top names from the get go. Like I said, the whole things say more about Brock Lesnar than it does anything else. But he wrestled for the WWE for a few years, so in the minds of some, nothing else matters. TFK
Lesnar is Northwestern "Country"...He's Just as "Country" as Roy, MINUS the Accent... Sable's OLDER than Brock (by @ Least 10 Years, REED's Guessing) & was WISE Enough to Throw the Pussy @ Brock while he was N WWE...It's Pretty OBVIOUS that Brock WASN'T Tapping Much Ass, Prior to his WWE Days...Not the QUALITY of Sable, Anyways...He Probably JACKED OFF to her Image, PRIOR to Joining WWE... But Since Sable's OLDER, Hopefully Brock's SMART Enough to Get YOUNGER @ that Position, a Few Years Down the Road...Brock's EARLY 30's & If his UFC Stint is HALF as Successful as it SEEMS like it'll B, he'll B PICKING & CHOOSING Hot Bitches B 4 Long... REED:kidcool:
Exactly... N Terms of Fandom, REED's a Relative MMA NOVICE, yet KNOWS that Mir, Herring & Couture were LEGITIMATE Tests for ANY UFC Newbie, Let Alone Lesnar... Like Someone Else Said, COMPARE Noguiera's Fight w/Herring to Lesnar's:dunno:...Herring Had a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY of FINISH Nogueira, yet Didn't, whereas Brock WIPED HIS ASS w/Herring for 5 Minutes of EVERY Round...& Brock was DOMINATING Mir Right Up Until he Got Caught N that Leglock... Lesnar's Fought Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay BETTER Comp than Kimbo EVER Did or EVER Will & Brock has Been IMPRESSIVE N the Process... REED Knows U HATE Rap, TFK, but a Hip Hop LEGEND by the Name of Rakim 1nce Said, "It Ain't Where U're FROM, it's Where U're AT"...That Applies to Brock Lesnar PERFECTLY...Don't Judge the Cat on WWE, Judge him on What's Happened Since he Joined UFC... REED:mj:
Wing Chun uses punches, but based off of their trapping. They dont punch like boxers. They also dont stand like boxer. Wing Chun often use "t" stances. You are crazy to compare the two. Besides, Brock beat randy with a punch. Its not like he outwrestled him (though that wouldnt be a suprise). He landed a punch to Randy's old ass head and knocked him out. Just like Chuck Liddell did. You can think this is bad for the sport all you want. I can guarantee you are in the minority. Also, dont make comparisons with styles you dont know shit about. Its insulting.
As Much as YOU Know about MMA, U CAN'T B Serious...Lesnar DOMINATED Mir, Until the Leglock...Mir's about to Fight for the Interim Title...Lesnar DOMINATED Herring, who Gave Big Nog ALL he Could Handle... Considering Lesnar's Weight Class, what More COULD he have Done, to Earn a Title Shot???... REED:dunno:
I've actually sparred with a wing chun guy, I probably know more about it than you, you mook. The point is, of course they are different, just like Kung Fu is different to Karate, but Wing Chun is still a combat that FOCUSES on hand techniques, therefore in theory providing a solid base to start boxing. "The stances are different, they do trapping" :: Well of course, it's NOT boxing, the point is, it should give them solid grounding in punching, blocking, parrying, distance, and general standup fighting with hands rather than feet or weapons. You are nitpicking to downplay the comparison, but it's completely valid. And you know as well as I do that a wing chun guy (or a practioner of ANY hand focused martial art) would get the shit kicked out of them by a world class boxer, in boxing, if they had 3 fights. That's my point, and it just shows what a rudimentary stage MMA is at really, that Lesnar could beat Couture. I hope it changes, because I do like MMA. I do also recognise that Lesnar is somewhat of a freak athlete, with incredible size and strength and speed, but the equivalent athlete making a transition to boxing, fighting the equivalent of couture, would have been utterly schooled, and you know it.
But Lesnar's background in wrestling made him better prepared for MMA than it would boxing, as do his strength and athleticism. Brute strength like Lesnar's isn't nearly as big of an asset in boxing as it is in MMA. You're really reaching. I understand your point, but still, it's reaching. TFK
The notoriety he gained in the WWE had a lot to do with him getting the shot, I won't argue that, but it also helped him get fights with guys like Mir and Herring as well, and his UFC contract for that matter. And it made all the sense in the world, business wise, to do it. But in each and every fight, Lesnar has shown that he belongs where he is, regardless of how he got there. He's a legit MMA fighter, and the fact that he's done it this quickly shows just how special of an athlete he is. All I know is, if Lesnar was some Japanese or Brazilian guy that never wrestled for the WWE, but had the same amateur background, size, athleticism and brute strength that he has, and reeled off wins against Herring an Couture in his 3rd and 4th fights, the same people who are bashing him now would be singing his praises to everyone who would listen about how he's the next Fedor. TFK
For those of you who still don't think Brock Lesnar is good for the UFC, take a look at this... http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-ppvbuys121208&prov=yhoo&type=lgns Top 10 North American PPV buy rates, 2008 <TABLE class=ysptblclbg cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=4 width="100%" bgColor=#aaaaaa border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow2><TD>1. Boxing: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, Dec. 6, 1,250,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>2. UFC: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, Nov. 15, 1,010,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>3. Wrestling: WrestleMania, Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul “Big Show†Wight, March 30, 670,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>4. UFC: Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch/Lesnar vs. Heath Herring, Aug. 9, 625,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>5. UFC: Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, Feb. 2, 600,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>6. UFC: Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin, July 5, 540,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>7. UFC: St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, April 19, 530,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>8. Boxing: Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr., Jan. 19, 500,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>9. UFC: Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans, Sept. 6, 480,000</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2><TD>10. UFC: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk/Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida, May 24, 475,000</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Who's name is in the 3 highest rated UFC's? That's right, Brock Lesnar. TFK
TFK, I think you slightly misunderstood my point. When I said "equivalent athlete" I didn't mean Brock himself, or even someone with similar attributes to brock (physical strength, size, wrestling etc). By "equivalent" I more meant someone who would bring desirable attributes to wrestling, as per Brock bringing desirable attributes to MMA. IE - someone fast, skilled, with good hand techniques, timing, defense. Of course, I didn't just mean someone big and strong like Brock, I meant someone from another form of combat, who would have desirable attributes in boxing, AND experience in hand focused combat.
Who ever argued that he wasn't a draw?? You can't say that his WWE background isn't the reason behind that either.
I have been involved with Wing for close to 17 years. Its not my primary style, but i would call myself very good at it. And i know they would get beat by a boxer in a boxing match. Thats my point. They would get beat because its not the same thing. To throw punches like a boxer, you cannot use a "T" stance. IT would be impossible to throw a cross with any force. Brock is a Wrestler. Randy is a wrestler. Brock won by a PUNCH. Your theory makes no sense. Randy's old (mma Age) Randy was inactive. Randy got caught .
What hurts MMA integrity a lot imo is not that Brock won, I expected him to do so in dominating fashion, it's that Randy was sucessfully nullifying Brock strenght advantage but was taken out by a punch from someone who probably started learning strking technique no more than 3 years ago. It strenghten the notion that any goon can get in the cage, close his eyes and throw a punch and expect to get lucky even vs top fighter, as Couture had one of the best stand up game in hw. And it's not only like if it was a question of style, all of Brock veteran UFC opponent where put on their ass by Brock novice and telegraphed stand up.
So Brock dominated a shot Mir, who in my opinion would lost to a James Thompson caliber of oppoenet right now, for a whole 1 minute before losing:doh::doh: Herring lost just as bad vs another wrestler in Jake Obrian, just before the Lesnar fight, and Obrian isn't a top hw by any stretch of imagination. To even pretend Brock was deserving of a title shot is a joke and really show how new you're to MMA. He's champ now and he'll have to chance to prove himself as a worthy one very soon, but let's not revised the past and claim that his title shot was due to anything else than to his WWE past. And it's a damn shame Mir is getting a title fight too, he was annhilated by Verra, who is going nowhere, especially at hw, as well as by another nobody in Cruz
Exactly, I fail to see what Kimbo has to do with discussing Brock Lesnar. Everyone in the know knew he wouldn't ever be anything more than, at most, a dangerous gate keeper. But he fought very solid opposition for a novice, and save for the Petruzelli fight, alway's gave a good show. Brock is a very good wrestler, with potential to be a top hw, but who's style is very boring and unnapealing. Completely the opposite of Kimbo.
So where's your Criticism of Noguiera???...If U're Gonna SHIT on Herring, then SURELY U've Got CRITICISMs of Noguiera, Since he Was Nearly STOPPED by Herring...w/All your INFINITE MMA Wisdom, what's YOUR Take on that Situation??? The UFC Heavy Division ISN'T Exactly Deeeeeeeeeep, so Based on WHO he Fought & HOW He Fared Against them, Lesnar EARNED his Shot... SPARE REED your MMA ELITIST Bullshit, Dude... REED:hammert:
Noguiera defeated Herring several times and Herring had one highlight in all of them ( the high kick that wobbled him in their UFC fight ). Noguiera gets hit and rocked a lot, Bob Sapp had him in a whole lot more of trouble than Herring did and Sapp sucks while Nog was in his prime then. But the hard part is not wobbling him, it's putting him out as he has amazing recuperative power. Noguiera didn't deserved a title fight base on his lone UFC win vs Herring but base on him being perharps the most accomplish HW fighter ever, you can't just forget all he accomplished before just because it wasn't in the UFC. Comparing him to Lesnar is an aberration. And I'm not shitting on Herring, it was a very good win for Lesnar considering where he was in his career, but his best days are past him and he's no more than a gate keeper as of now. As I said O Brian owned him nearly as bad as Lesnar and he's not elite, did OBrian deserved a title shot too in your estimation ???
Noguiera? Mir? Couture should have been stripped of his belt when he left the UFC, and Noguiera/Sylvia should have been for the real belt.
Weren't Noguiera & Mir ALREADY SIGNED to Meet Each Other, PRIOR to Couture-Lesnar Being Signed???...Hadn't T.U.F. ALREADY Been Filmed???... & Wasn't Sylvia ALREADY GONE from UFC???... REED:dunno:
Nog and Mir both ageed to be on TUF. They weren't available to fight Couture. Who really cares though? The winner of Nog vs Mir will be fighting Lesnar anyway so this whole mess will be sorted out soon enough. If Lesnar is the last man standing then he deserves to be champ, if not then he'll keep on working.
Yep. No matter what he does he will have a ton of critics. I say who cares, let the man prove himself. If he doesn't turn out to be that great, oh well. If he does, good for him. Makes no difference to me. I think he makes for some real interesting fights and the HW division needs every good fighter it can get.
Well, the whole thing is a farce, because Couture should have been stripped of the title when he quit. I don't know if there is anyone who should have got the shot ahead of Lesnar considering the circumstances, but that only speaks of how bad the HW division, not how deserving Lesnar is.
agREED... But when Guys (Other Posters, NOT U) Say Lesnar "Didn't Deserve" his Title Shot, it INSINUATES that there's More QUALIFIED Candidates Out There... REED:hammert:
The UFC HW division is very shallow. Which I always find odd, that they do so many TUF shows with all the other divisions. But that is another discussion altogether. If Lesnar beats the winner, he'll still have critics. I'm with Z, who cares. I started this thread to see why BYG hates Lesnar. He thinks he's an asshole. Not sure I can agree, but I can accept it. BYG is my message board homey:kidcool: REED, throw me on the unofficial bandwagon for "El Perro", that is just perfect::
