What really caused Tyson's decline?

I agree that KO'ing everyone early in the end does not help deal with someone you can not KO

but I think Tyson WOULD KO Douglas if he was right..

you can not deny that Tyson just was basically shot already before Douglas.. not shot as in old.. but hookers and blow type of shot..

no training, drinking, partying, hookers...

 

dsimon writes:

:: Maybe maybe.

 

dsimon writes:

what a TB.... Tyson almost KO'ed Douglas in the biggest loss of his career... the loss where he was still at his best. Some people still think Douglas got a long count.

 

As Trplsec said, when Tyson was asked some questions, he wasn't prepared to answer. He wasn't ready to fight a man who had no respect for him as Douglas did that night. Look at the guys Tyson was beating around that time like Stewart, Tillman, Carl Williams, etc who would just fall down like little bitches from a Tyson swing and put up no resistance. That's why Tyson just wasn't ready for a fighter like Douglas. Even though Douglas too, if he was paid off, would've taken the fall from the first Tyson punch in the first round like most people expected. ::
The Ruddock fights too were entertaining but Tyson dominated them although Ruddock didn't give up. That first Ruddock fight was a complete fix job. Steele was paid off.

 

Douglas was beating his ass for every second of that fight till he got dropped, ds. And that's why Tyson has top level power. But it wasn't enough unfortunately. And to Tyson's credit, he never made excuses for the loss. Don King did, trying to even get it overturned.

 

fix? come on Hanzy

i know you hate on Mike for some reason but it is only Hate..

if you looked logically and without your hate glasses.. this was a KID.. Knocking people the F out!

Spinks didn't take a dive.. he was a legend that got STEAMROLLED

Mike was a phenom

what killed him was not that he was over-rated or that he didn't stand up to adversity.. it was that he partied like a rock star and stopped really boxing..

 

dsimon writes:

This version of the Tyson story is also valid. Well stated Sec. I think your take on Douglas is absolutely correct I just can't imagine how he could have done it.:dunno: He looked like Ali in the ring that night.

Like most things in history this is the proverbial other side of the story and it is as much the Tyson story as the dominant guy who had his way with the division. :bears:

Great post.

 

Come on LOK! Tyson was f*cking around with drugs, partying and hookers even when he was with Cus D'amato. They had to go drive around New York looking for him when he was missing training camp. Stop making excuses for him. He got owned!

 

dsimon writes:

Again.... Exactly. :bears: Even against Ruddock you could see that he was not puttin combos together like he did in the day

 

Somebody would've come along and f*cked him up eventually LOK, prime or not. It's always been that way in every sport. If Tyson didn't wanna train, that's on him. That's his own f*ck up. Ever notice that most every great in history who was defeated was only defeated because they were either 'shot' or 'didn't train'.
Look at Riddick Bowe. Dude was a party animal.

 

Tyson used to be a kid who was nervous.. almost scared in there.. and he'd go in DOMINATING people..

he got cocky, got hookers, blow, etc.. and also totally stopped using head movement, jabs..

he thought he could just walk in and KO people and forgot that what got him there was his boxing

Mike was RIDICULOUSLY fast..

he is not a big guy.. he is a small heavy that dominated with SPEED

he started thinking he could walk in and just KO but stopped working on and training with what allowed him to do that

 

Spinks never made or attempted to make a comeback to boxing. He knew the Tyson fight was his big payday and he'd take it, bank it, and retire. Plus he ducked fighters. Spinks was a joke.
Tyson at least fought everybody available so that's more respect and credit to Tyson for being a fighting champion.

 

How many years do you think he could've kept up that kind of style and form, LOK? Tyson's style of fighting was extremely complex. He was gifted but he had to work twice as hard as somebody like Bowe or Lewis who could acheive the same results with half the work.
Tyson wasn't destined for a long career.

 

well.. on this I agree with you 100% Hanzy..

even if he kept his nose clean and left hookers and partys alone..

his style would be short lived..

a hot fire that burns out quickly

 

Tyson got owned by a determined fighter. Sure he could have maybe been sharper but Douglas would not be denied on that night and would have beaten any version of Mike.

 

I'd have to agree. Douglas would've won no matter which Tyson showed up. When your mom dies, there's probably nothing else in life that will phase you. Not even Mike Tyson.:dunno: Tyson was in the right place but in the wrong time when he met Douglas that night.

 

Atlas was saying that in a documentary. Referring to Tyson as a shooting star. I think Tyson still could've done well because of his power but without the footwork and speed to come inside and land it on a guy who's like 6'5, it'd be tougher. He'd end up on the outside eating jabs. Plus he lost power on his punch when he lost speed. So you were right about how big a factor speed was in Tyson's entire game. Not like Foreman's power who could just swing his arm slowly and still break bones.

 

Tyson would've easily KO'd the Douglas from the Holyfield fight.

 

Was Tyson a big drinker? I never recall anybody telling any stories of Tyson's drinking habits.

 

are you serious?

there were reports of him out drunk before the douglas fight. he liked to drink

 

Larry Holmes said once.. when asked about Tyson's power..

"it's not like Shavers or Foreman who would hit you and it'd be like getting hit by a mack truck going 40 mph.. just HEAVY HEAVY shots that made you dizzy, with Mike it was more the speed.. it was more like getting hit by a lamborghini going 200mph.. over and over.. you'd barely recover from one and you'd get hit by 3 more"

 

dsimon writes:

Lok is spot on. Mike was succesful with his speed in-so-far-as speed=power. Mike punched from angels, could get ya with either hand, did not get hit often so he just got cocky. Also his footwork... dude closed the gap faster than any heavy I can think of.

Mike was thepackage... his head movement also... he may have been one of the best fighters in his ability to move laterally (Holmes being the absolute best in this regard). I mean Mike didn't have size and didn't fuckin need it! He was the perfect size, no more no less. Compact and mobile. Watch him against Razor Ruddock and see how he dealt with a good big man. No he was not at his best in this fight but still he broke Razor down slowly.

But yeah he was short lived. Dempsey was also, and Frazier took a lot of beatings later as well if I recall properly. But Mike did it right...he didn't fuck around he just KO'ed which is to my mind how I would want to fight if I was a professional.

Douglas, the way he fought that night was a phenomena. I think the way he fought that night he would have been a problem for any fighter frankly. I don't know how he did it. That might be, in its totality the most remarkable upset ever in the sport. I have to agree that even a prime Tyson has a hell of a time with Douglas that night.

 

How come his bad habits only revolve around the Douglas fight?:: He was out f*cking 5-6 whores before the Tillman fight and took the guy out in like 12 seconds.

 

As Trplsec said, the fact that he was so KO-happy meant he wasn't prepared to face a guy who wouldn't fall down for him like Buster. Tyson needed more wars. More resistance early in his career. Might have moulded him into a better fighter mentally.

 

no doubt they do not..

but they went to another level..

he went to Japan and was treated like a god.. and he believed it.. he partied harder than ever.

this combined with a incredible night for Buster

 

The Thing is, it FINALLY Caught Up w/Him N the Douglas Fight...

1nce Cus Died, ANY SEMBLANCE of "Discipline" was GONE...REED Read an Article where Mike ADMITTED to having Gonorrhea DURING THE BERBICK FIGHT...Dude LITERALLY had an STD the Day he WON the Heavyweight Title::...

& He had Sooooooo Many Partners Leading Up to that Fight that he COULDN'T Identify who he Contracted the Disease from...




REED:hump:

 

That's how Morrison got Aids. Lewis almost caught it from Morrison when they fought in '95. Morrison was tested HIV+ after that fight although he had it before he fought Lewis.

 

Buster was a good fighter that one night. He bitched out against Holyfield though. He laid down, crying.

 

He Wasn't even Crying...

Holyfield DRILLED him, Buster Fell, Rubbed his Glove Over his Face to Check for Blood, then Layed his Head Down & Took the 10-Count...It was Almost as DISGRACEFUL as Seldon's Quitjob vs. Tyson...

& he Took Home like 20 mil that Night....

REED:hammert:

 

He obviously didn't look after his 20 million cause he came back fighting on Tuesday Night Fights.