Is Sugar Shane Being UNDERestimated???...

and Trinidad isn't Kermit Cintron...he will land the left hook...the right hand..the uppercut..to the head and body of Margarito..he will not stop throwing after a few rounds....:nono:

Margarito is not going to overpower Trinidad like he does most of his opponents.....he doesn't do to well when hes the same size as his opponent...

 

Cintron went down swinging. He got discouraged, but he still tried to throw...even if was just to keep him off him.

I don't know, I think Trinidad's resume at 147 was very inflated.

I'd love to have seen him fight Joshua Clottey and see how well he does against him.

As for Trinidad's vaunted repetoire...if he tried to throw those right hands it'd be a mistake.

 

Hugo Pineda was BIGGER than Margarito & Maurice Blocker was about as TALL...Yori Boy Campas CERTAINLY had a MargaritoESQUE Style & BETTER 1 Shot Power...& Though he was SHORT, Larry Barnes was a BUSY, PRESSURE Fighter who SMOTHERED Tito...

Nonetheless, NONE of those Guys Lasted Past the 4th Round, if REED's Not Mistaken...

For Whatever Reason, U're RELUCTANT To Say it, but the TRUTH is, Margarito's Defense is SUAR...Merely Saying it "Isn't Great" DOESN'T Tell the WHOLE Story...He Gets Hit w/Faaaaaaaaaar Tooooooooooo MANY FLUSH Headshots to B Classified as Anything OTHER than a SUAR Defensive Fighter...

& like REED Said, a Guy Relying on his CHIN & the Ability to OUTMAN Tito ISN'T Gonna Beat Him...NOBODY Beat Tito that Way...Fuuuuurthermore, Margarito NEVER Fought a Guy that Hit as HARD as Tito...

EVER...


REED:mj:

 

agREED...

Pineda was an even BIGGER Welterweight than Margarito...


REED:hammert:

 

Why???....

Considering Margarito's SUAR Defense, it's a VERY GOOD Chance that Tito LANDS those Right Hands...



REED:hammert:

 

If Tito landed as many shots on Margarito as Cotto did, Margarito would have been stopped in 6.

 

:::: Joshua Clottey...you m'kaying around right..??? :: Trinidad will throw every punch at Margarito...and they WILL ALL LAND...you don't beat Trinidad by allowing him to land on you....

 

Nah...

Margarito's Defense is UNDERRATED...He Actually BLOCKED & SMOTHERED Most of those Punches...It just LOOKED Like Cotto was Landing FLUSH, HEAD TURNING Shots...



REED::

 

Pineda.

Blocker.

Campas.

Geez.

 

Clottey's defense and physical strength would've made it a good fight..

 

Dude, YOU'RE the 1 Insinuating that Tito NEVER Fought BIG Welters or Welters that PRESSURED him...He HAS...

Now ANYfuckingTIME YOU'RE Ready, Start Rattling Off the Names of 1-Shot PUNCHERS Margarito Faced...


REED:boohoo:

 

So on 1 Hand, U're Basically SHITTING on Tito's 147 lb Resume, yet on the Other Hand U're TRUMPETING Josh Clottey???::...

Besides Zab Judah & Chico Corrales WHO has Clottey Beaten???...


REED:mj:

 

You could've just said he hadn't fought any with his size and style...at least on anywhere near the same kind of level.

You brought Hugo Pineda to a Margarito discussion?

I can agree Margarito never fought a one-punch puncher like Trinidad.

But I don't know that Trinidad lands nearly as many punches as Cotto did...and no, not because it's a shorter night. ::

 

I'm suggesting his style, not his resume, would've given Trinidad difficultly.

 

phonetap believes trinidad/margarito would have been a very interesting fight. talk about an irresistable force against an immovable object. while it's true margarito never faced a julian jackson type bomber at welterweight, trinidad never faced an iron chinned marvin hagler type (at welterweight) that could take his shots and keep coming.

phonetap leans towards tito because while tito wouldn't hurt margarito right away the accumulation of hard, heavy shots over the fight would probably wear him down for a late fight stoppage. those that think tito would destroy margarito are being absurd...that wouldn't happen....this mythical matchup has classic written all over it.

 

Cotto was throwing a lot - well, almost all of his punches - while retreating.

The only times he stopped were momentary.

It's a tough style to maintain for twelve rounds...something he showed he couldn't do, at least at that pace...(I still think in a rematch, he takes the foot off the gas a little bit in the early rounds, is a little more economcal with his punch output and probably doesn't tire as badly as he did in that fight).

Cotto wasn't standing his ground, tyring to counter Margarito or in any way get into exchanges. He was trying to punch first and move out of the way.

Trinidad couldn't implement Cotto's strategy and carry it out if he wanted to.

His base is much more stationary...and, IMO, susceptible to crowding. Trinidad will get off, and land, initially...but he's not a great combination puncher...and Margarito finishes exchanges. How will Trinidad deal with the second and third punches the way Margarito throws punches in succession? If Margarito can keep his right hand up and block some of those punches on the way in, and mange distance without taking repeated bombs, then he could be in range for his short punches up the middle. They may not be great punches, but it could take Trinidad out of his fight. And if Tito's throwing those standard right hands of his he's not throwing left hooks, and that's the only punch I see him beating Margarito with.

 

Shane seems to me to be underestimated since the Winky Wright domination.

 

So then what are you basing your argument on? Trinidad has fought and beaten guys bigger and stronger than Margarito and has consistently shown throughout his career a level of punching power that is arguably one of the best in boxing history. So how are you going to tell me Margarito's face first style will stand up to that over 12 rds? Is it because of merely good punchers like Cotto and Clottey not hurting him?

Even if Margarito would have been able to do what so few welters were and last all 12 rds, Tito was such a much better boxer and technician that he likely would have won the decision anyway. His accuracy was one of the best, and his ability back then to slowly figure out his opponent was severly underrated.

You are being quite biased against a future first ballot hall of famer with a guy who still has to earn his way in the HOF in the first place.

 

It'd be a classic alright, but only because it would be very action packed watching Tito beat the living krud out of Margarito. This would be a domination and I'm sorry but nobody at welter today holds a candle to either prime Shane or Tito other than maybe Paul Williams if he boxed. That's right prime Shane dominates Margarito too. Too much speed and talent and the wrong style for Tony to bring to the table. I've only seen one guy take punches from prime Tito and not be affected by it and that was Hopkins who was a lot bigger.

Phonetap, Margarito probably does have the chin to last late in a fight versus Tito and I agree it would be an accumulation of shots that finally put him down as it did with most guys Tito fought. That said, it's Margarito's style more than anything that will keep him in harm's way so much that it will prevent him from lasting longer in the fight. Tito made a career out of destroying those come forward with pride mexican's like Tony. Just ask Fernando Vargas.

 

Not very much, apparently.

Retirement's done a lot for Trinidad's career. It's improved his defense, his chin, his balance...even lessened the amount of time it took to load up on his left hook - when he did - and the spacing he preferred to have when he threw it.

But I know, hall of fame boxers have never lost to those who weren't.

 

Funny U Say that, Cause it Seems to REED that the MORE FLUSH Headshots Margarito Absorbs, the MORE his Supporters Claim it's "By Design" OR that Our Eyes were Actually FOOLING Us & that Margarito was Actually "Blocking Alot" of them...



REED:mj:

 

Margarito's style is based on having a set of whiskers. He wouldn't be nearly as good if he had Cotto's beard...or if he tried to fight more defensively.

That doesn't mean he doesn't block more punches than he's given credit for.

 

Again, U're Working Under the PRESUMPTION that Margarita is Going to BOLDLY Stalk Tito & Walk Thru WHATEVER for 12 Rounds...Just Because Cotto COULDN'T Deter Him...

No, Tito Can't Retreat for 12 Rounds, but WHY Would he WANT to???...He's a BIGGER, STRONGER Welter than Cotto Ever was, so WHY would he Attempt to Implement Cotto's Strategy???...The Cotto Fight is just an Example of Margarito's SUAR Defense, Certainly NOT a Blueprint for Beating him...

U Wanna CONSISTENTLY "Crowd" Tito???...Well, there's Gonna B a HEFTY Toll to CONSISTENTLY Pay...To Date, NO Fighter (from Welter THRU Middleweight) has Managed to Fight Tito that Way & WIN...

F.Y.I., Tito's BEST Punch was Obviously the Left Hook, but he DID Have POWER N his Right Hand as Well...



REED:mj:

 

& U've NEVER Heard Margarito's STAUNCHEST Critics Say Anything the LEAST Bit Negative about his Chin, Have U???..."Blocking More Punches than Given Credit For" Doesn't Alter THE FACT that Margarito is a SUAR Defensive Fighter, Dude...Sorry, but he just IS....

If U Break Margarito Down from A-Z, Rating EVERY Trait & Ability that he has, he'll Rank the LOWEST when it Comes to DEFENSE...By a MILE, N Fact...& his CHIN is his BIGGEST STRENGTH...



REED:mj:

 

I would take Hearns easily to outgun Tito. I like Tito but god damn you overrate that fool as if he has nothing but hall of famers he destroyed on his record.

 

yeah but he proved he was better than most thought after he kod Cotto. Doesnt' he deserve more respect?

so if a fighter proves you wrong you will still think he is complete shit? that's just being biased.

I have never been a fan of Margarito. But I don't underrate the guy nor do I overrate him.

by now it's silly not to give him any fucking credit.

 

The same Tito that in his prime needed 3 low blows to get out of trouble from Vargas?

Tito would be Tony but no way he dominates him. Hell I think like most oponents Tony would have knock Tito Down maybe more than once.

 

Margarito wouldn't walk Trinidad down the way he did - and had to do - against Cotto.

But he'd stand close to him, often in front of him, with his hands up - and here, frankly, his defense is better than say a Fernando Vargas, as his right hand is often tighter to his chin, whereas someone like Vargas holds his hands out away from his chin - and his arms covering much of his torso, and he'd take steps forward and he'd throw punches with both hands, from different angles. And when Trinidad leaned in, as he would do at times, Margarito would bring punches up the middle and he'd look to land uppercuts.

Trinidad had power in his right hand, but the power in both hands was amplified when he loaded up on it...and when he did, he could get wild and well out of position after throwing. I think Margarito would give him something to think about before he did it...and if he didn't he'd get something in return.

 

I like margarito and think he's an excellent welterweight, and that would be his edge here. trinidad was not yet in his physical prime when he was at welter. he was young there, and by the time he got to his physical prime he had outgrown the division. margarito would do well at 154lbs against any of the guys around now but trinidad at his best would win.

 

I'll give Margarito credit, he does block a lot of shots. For instance against Paul Williams he was doing a great job of blocking punches and I came away pretty impressed with his ability to do that. He'd still get decimated by Tito though. Margarito hasn't even shown above average punching power. I'm not going to argue this anymore, especially since there is noway you can prove it. I do know this though. Back when lots of guys thought Mayorga was some kind of ironed chinned lead fisted god who could hang with if not beat Tito, I was saying from day one Mayo would get dominated and that was exactly what happened. It was a styles thing just like it is with Margarito. Well that and I knew Mayo was overrated as hell years before most caught on.