A poor man's version of Vargas-Wright. The similarites are there, only Collazo isnt as good as Winky, and Berto isnt as good as Vargas. In both cases, the guy who landed the cleaner punches was robbed by the undefeated fighter who turned it up down the stretch. And poor Collazo. Just cant catch a break. He should have wins over both Hatton, and Berto.
Fights have to be scored in favour of the aggressor, if the man coming forward is hit with the odd 'clean punch' while marching in and trying to make the fight, that should not trump 6 blows that are somewhat slightly deflected or knicked, no matter how 'flashy' or 'fast' that one punch looked, UNLESS the legs buckle or there is a degree of damage inflicted as a result of it. Bert won, :nono: only a Tom, could possibly think otherwise.
Wait, which one are you describing? BOTH guys had long stretches where they were the one coming forward and landing clean shots. To just say at the end that Berto won means that you thought Collazo won many of the early rounds anyway, since he was the one coming forward then...
Ahh the inconsistency of the patrons of this board.... Berto/Collazo was another in a long list of fights where the anecdotal evidence has one guy winning - while that dirty, flawed system (that we like to ignore when it suits us) called "scoring rounds" has the other guy winning. YES Berto looked better in the home stretch. YES Collazo was almost falling down from exhaustion in the 12th. YES Berto landed some great punches which hurt Collazo. There were many points in the fight where Berto beat up on Collazo in spurts, and on a few occasions Collazo's legs buckled. But Berto did not win enough ROUNDS to win that fight, plain and simple. With the point deduction against him, Berto would have had to win 7 rounds to make it a draw. To get a points victory in that fight Berto needed 8 rounds minimum. This is complete and utter bullshit, there is no way in Hell he won 8 rounds and everybody knows it. In fact, no matter how I re-watch the fight, I cannot see Berto winning 6 rounds. Andre Berto LOST that fight, because in boxing the guy who wins more ROUNDS wins the fight (barring a KO). It doesn't matter who was more tired, who won the "championship" rounds, or whose face looked better. Even if I award Berto 2 extra rounds that I thought were Collazo's, the fight is a draw. Fights like this are hard to call robberies because in the end, it was a very competitive fight. But from a strictly nuts n' bolts technical point of view - it IS a robbery, since there is no credible way Berto could possibly have won 114-113 or 116-111 under any circumstances.
The fight reminded of Gatti-Ward I,only during certain spurts of action. Definatley the 3rd round was very similar to G-W I!! Great fight though. I do admit the wrong man won,but hell ,it was entertaining!!
What a horrid analogy.I am so sick to death of Collazo as a victim except last night. He really did lose to Hatton no matter what you idiots say. He was under no circumstances robbed. Last night however, the guy was robbed.I had it closer than HBO but I can't see anything other than a draw(if you gave Berto every benefit of the doubt) or a clear Collazo win. I will say that Berto is not an elite fighter. Collazo is not only not good, he has no heart. He beat Berto down.
quite a bit of an overstatement in my eyes especially considering how the last two rounds went. If anything he was getting beat down but just managed to score more rounds in the process - if this is a 15 round fight he's leaving on a stretcher. beat him down...
i thought collazo barely won, but berto did finish strong in the last two rounds. i guess one could be impressed by his will to win, but he's way too sloppy and chinny to be considered an elite guy. he better stay away from cotto, margarito and clottey. i'd say put him in against judah or whatever's left of mosley once margarito beats him up next week.
Collazo got heart. It's just that he's a strange kind of "brawler". He's primarily a counter puncher, with tendencies to brawl. He doesn't have a solid set of whiskers to deal with incoming bombs, so he deflects some, takes some and dishes back. The kid got heart. The mosley fight was a freak injury to his hand that had him going backwards.
Good fight. Didn't remind me of Vargas Wright anymore than scratching my nuts reminds me of astrology, though. Can I see Berto winning 7 rounds? Yeah. Lederman tanked a couple of rounds. I'd guess 6-6 would be the most likely score, so 7-5 is not that out of line.
It's alright, it's ok, you just exposed the fact that I commented without actually having watched the fight, that's all.
sounds more like it... Watch Marga-Cotto if u wanna be remembered what a beatdown looks like... artie:
who was the slapper without punching power for the last six rounds because he ran out of gas in the Vazquez-Marquez fight???
:atu::doh: Vasquez vs. Marquez III....where Marquez barely survived round 12(if i'm not mistaken)....but that about it...for comparisons
You know what, I thought the same thing. Collazo isn't hugely different to Winky, and in both situations, the young champ pulled out the last 2 rounds to win a controversial decision. For the record I thought Collazo won clearly. I'm not a Luis fan, but I agree, poor guy, he could conceivably have wins over Hatton and Berto.
Fights are supposed to be scored with an enmphasis on clean punching. This is why Lederman's card was overwhelmingly in favor of Collazo. There's no question he landed the cleaner punches. And I don't think he was hurt at the end so much as tired. He was falling down. It's not like he was wobbling. And good for that referee for deducting a point for Berto's holding. What it exposed, when Berto was no longer allowed to hold, is that his defense is horrible. The only reason Collazo couldn't pick him apart was because Berto was so aggressive. But win or lose (I thought Berto clearly lost the fight), the guy has no skills and is just another in a long line of his promoter's hype jobs. And it's clear if it wasn't before that if your promoter brings his fights cinsistently to Vegas, the judges there will give him the benefit of the doubt (can't recall if this fight took place in Vegas or not but it's true nontheless). Additionally, undefeated records, oh so coveted by HBO in search of Tysonesque perceived invincibility, are difficult to shoot down. My opinion is Collazo showed he was by far the more skilled fighter. Berto is shit. And if he can't continue to knock out mid-level competition, he'll be fed to the dogs very soon. Because if he can't, it exposes him as nothing, because the guy sure's hell doesn't know how to box and has a horrible defense and in the final analysis, his inability to beat Collazo is proof of this.
It was a close fight either way. Collazo faded down the stretch, so I have no problem with Berto winning. A rematch is warranted. It was an entertaining fight.
I think it's important people realize a major reason the fight was as entertaining as it was is that a referee finally did his job and didn't allow a fighter to control the pace of a fight or overcome his defensive liabilities with incessant holding. Berto's inability to hold without facing severe consequences meant that both fighters had no choice in there but to fight, which is what people tune in to see afterall. Anyone who criticizes the point deduction levied against Berto should consider this along with the indisputable fact that holding is illegal.
I had Collazo winning that fight. I thought Berto did a nice job of climbing back in it late, but I had Collazo clearly winning that fight. Unfortunately I wasn't too surprised when it was given to Berto.
I still say this...I didn't see Berto win 7 rounds. His winning 6 rounds (AT BEST) means he loses due to the point deduction. That 9-3 card in his favor remains mind boggling.
First of all I'm not sure who's the moron who thinks Collazo lost to Hatton. I was ringside that fight and I can assure you he was robbed. As far as Collazo against Berto, Collazo easily beat Berto and was robbed again by the powers that be. Of course, I actually didn't see the right. But remember, I'M THE ONLY ONE ON THIS BOARD THAT CAN ANALYZE A FIGHT WITHOUT ACTUALLY WATCHING IT! That's how great I am. Cupey
