Observations and Questions regarding the Mosely/Tony fight.....

1. Margarito is susceptible to shots to the temple. Mosley knocked him down with a shot to the temple; Santos hurt Margarito badly with a shot to the temple.

2. An interesting matchup would be Margarito with jerry-rigged gloves versus Trinidad with jerry-rigged gloves. My guess is they'd ruin each other.

3. Will Cotto ever be the same fighter, assuming that Margarito's gloves were illegally wrapped during their fight.

4. Mosley should've been deducted points for all of the holding he did. I can't even recall his being warned however.

5. It will be interesting to see if Cotto continues to pursue a rematch with Margarito given Saturday's results; Margarito's loss to Mosley could let him off the hook, given his "victory" over Mosley.

6. Styles make fights.

7. My guess is Margarito took Mosley too lightly.

8. Mosley, while he engaged heavily in the excessive holding he's well known for, looked a lot better than he did against Mayorga - he needs to remain at 147 and based on his performance could very well regain his status as the best welterweight in the world.

9. Did Margarito have a rematch clause?

10. To what extent was it established that Margarito's hands were unproperly wrapped?

11. Mosley's left hook is better than ever. He doesn't telegraph it nearly as much as he used to and relies on its speed and timing to a greater extent than trying to muscle it in as he used to. This no doubt accounts for his ability to put Mayorga on the floor with it and to hurt Margarito seriously with it.

 

1. Like Musze said before what started Margarito's downfall in round 8 was a right hand to the body...and what actually fucked Margarito was a LEAPING LEFT HOOK from MOSLEY RIGHT ON THE CHIN..

2. Trinidad was accused of using too much gauze/tape...Margarito apparently had some plaster rolled in tape/already WET in between his raps..on both hands....didn't Tito only had tooo much tape/gauge in his left hand...? ANYWAY TRINIDAD BY BRUTAL KO...anyway you want to look at IT...

3. Probably NOT...

4. Mosley did clinch alot...but down the stretch of the fight it was Margarito starting all the clinching...

5. I'm not sure...but given Margarito ILLEGAL hand-wrapping Miguel Cotto might want him now more than ever...

6. Yes

7. NO...

8. Mosley right now is the best Welterweight in the world w/ one of these (*) cause he has to avenge his defeat to Cotto who is still fighting at 147...

9. Don't know...

10. Mosley trainer had the boxing commission cut one of Margarito wrap of a white harden substance fell out of it...and then they did the other hand same thing was found...

11. YUP...and MARGARITA defense of blocking with his face didn't help..fucking Mayorga didn't get his with soooo many clean shots from Mosley.

 

So How UNDERRATED Did Margarito's Defense Look, Doub???...How FOOLISH was it for Shane to Stand IN FRONT of Margarito???...Was it By DESIGN, Part of Margarito's "Master Plan" that he ATE Headshot After Headshot like French Fries???...

How SKILLFUL did Margarito Look to YOU???...

Basically, REED has Been Telling YOU & Others for YEARS about how LIMITED Margarito is...You've been Fooling YOURSELF w/that PSUEDO Keen Eye BULLSHIT, Looking for NONEXISTENT Subtleties N a BASIC, Face First, Pressure Fighter...

A 37 Year Old Man Made Margarito Look like WHOlio Gonzalez....

REED:mj:

 

In fact Mosley did not stand much in front of Margarito, he used small movement very well in his advance and stopped Margarito from coming

 

People Expected Shane to RUN from Margarito, which NEVER Happened...EARLY, there was Side to Sid Movement, but by the 6th or 7th, Shane was Right IN FRONT of Margarito, Chopping him Down...



REED:hammert:

 

REED, you're beating your chest way too much here. We all know Margaritos flaws. You're not the only one who's seen him fight before. It's not his boxing skills that make him a tough fight for anyone at 147. We all know this. Nobody was impressed with Margarito's defense, and if anybody ever was, I don't know what to say for them.

 

If in past fights Margarito used loaded gloves, than I concede he's nothing more than an average fighter with a good chin.

For example, Cotto's movement against Margarito might've and probably was a response to Margarito's loaded gloves, probably in a similar fashion that ODH never stopped moving in his fight with Trinidad.

In both cases, it would seem that two fighters, both of whom had faced plenty of fighters who could crack (e.g. Torres, Mosley, Quartey, Chavez), were experiencing power they'd never experienced before.

It remains to be seen but given the glove incident I must confess that I'm starting to agree more and more with you REED that Margarito is not the special fighter I thought he was.

And to Illuminati, a straight right hand to the body was the perfect weapon against Margarito who seems to protect his body on the side very well.

Perhaps Cotto's confusion as to why he couldn't get to Margarito's body was due to one or both of two things:

1. Getting hit with plaster pares
2. His tendency to loop his body shots to the side of his opponents body rather than throwing them up the middle (against Maliginaggi he seemed to be cognizant of this liability seeing as how he hurt Paulie badly with an upper-cut to the body).

 

Well, U Must've MISSED the Littany of Posts were Guys had the AUDACITY to Lable Margarito's Defense as "Underrated" or Suggested that there was ANY Level of SCIENCE to his Approach...


REED:hammert:

 

The term thrown around was that Margarito has "good body defense".::

 

I give you credit Double :bears:

It seems like you've finally seen the light in regards to Marge.

I could have sworn you'd come up with some absurd reason/excuse about Marge's plaster of paris handwraps.

Shocking, he was caught red handed.

And further to your analogy about Oscar/Cotto running from tito/marge.

Marge didn't even look like he hit Cotto flush THAT many times, or with THAT hard a shots, yet Cotto's face was a fucking mess. Cotto doesn't have a particularly delicate face either, which is further testimony to his illegal wraps.

 

Well, according to Cotto who fought him (unlike you who did not fight Margarito), he reportedly does a good body defense.

And a fighter's defense can be under-rated and still not be good. There's a difference between the two terms for those who have comprehension problems (e.g. REED who doesn't seem to give much thought to a lot of what he reads).

But as I've said, if in fact, Margarito's gloves have been loaded all along, just about everything positive you could've said about him is null and void, with the exception of his chin and work-rate, neither of which in my estimation will be enough for him to repeat his victory over Cotto or ever beat a guy like Williams. Who knows? Without his loaded gloves he might not have beaten Cintron for all we know. His legacy has been destroyed in one fell swoop, as it should be.

And kudos to Mosely's camp for being vigilante enough to discover the crime. As for Cotto's camp, there's not much to say except that it would appear they dropped the ball in a big way.

And just to clarify, the subtle science that Margarito employs is not mutually exclusive with his having had loaded gloves. It's possible that his defensive liabilities without the aid of loaded gloves will mean he will never again win a significant fight (much as Trinidad never has since his illegal hand-wraps were discovered).

My guess is Margarito's approach to fighting was predicated on his having loaded gloves and being able to back up any and all opponents he ever faced. Something tells me his techniques like his right upper-cut or his ability to turn lefty on a dime will not serve him as they once did.

 

"6. Styles make fights."



.......Double L is finally catching on :bears:

 

loaded gloves shut opponents down and steal their will. this more than anything explains Mosley's victory (and Hopkin's win over Tito for that matter).

 

Considering the career Hopkins had after Trinidad is safe to say Trinidad took on more than he can handle with Hopkins....plus Trinidad was fighting a natural bigger guy....

and Trinidad was accused of using tooo much gauze/tape...Margarito was found with pieces of some substance in between his wrap...some shit that got harder as his hands sweated(sp).....IMO to completely different things...

 

Seeing that Shane had no problem gutting Margarito to the body, I say that Cotto had more problems with Margarito's height and reach advantage than his "defense".

 

Cotto and Mosley have similar heights....it musta been the illegal wraps...

 

Yeah, maybe the extra weight of the plaster made Margarito hold his hands down lower during the fight, making it harder for Cotto to land to the body.ld:

 

No but maybe Margarito inside uppercuts w/ his plaster fill wrap had a serious damaging effect on Cotto chin/body....:dunno:

 

A few things...

Double is an idiot...well documented and tested throughout the years.

Mosley's holding wasn't excessive and as someone pointed out, Margarito did his fair share as the fight wore on.

Cotto's movement against Margarito is something I've long been critical about (too bad Donnybrook isn't around, he'd co-sign). In fights against lesser guys, Cotto went into that defensive four corners offense in fights he was winning handily. I think he got hurt badly by a body shot against Shane and fought the last four rounds like that. Shane never stopped coming at him just like Margarito didn't.

And a fighter's defense can be under-rated and still not be good.

What kind of a dumbass statement is this? Are you're saying we're under-rating how bad his defense is? Bad defense is bad defense...how many more ways can you get hit in the face. Roger Mayweather said this about Gatti, "you can close your eyes and throw your hands. You're gonna hit him in the mutherfuckin' face anyway man." Same holds true for Margarito.

if you go back and read the round by round at some point you'll see that I said Mosley could knock Margarito down (didn't think out) due to Tony walking into shots. Even when Shane caught Tony with that crazy ass grazing uppercut, he did what Cotto rarely if ever did...took a step back, planted his feet then WAITED for Margarito to walk straight into shots.

It's important to make stands like that because you're doubling the power of your shot and using the guy's momentum against him. Cotto rarely did that.

Lastly, I have always said that guys who take good head shots and are ghood body punchers usually can't take the same in return.

 

Without patting myself on the back tooooo much, I knew Mosely would win and said it along side REED. Margarito was easily hit by Clottey. Mosely is 10 times the fighter of Clottey, with better everything. If anyone thought Margarito had good defense, they weren't watching his fights. His defense is his chin and stamina.

Regarding the illegal wraps, does anyone know what kind of fines/penalties will/are/should come down on Margarito?

Somewhere Cintron is convincing himself it was only the wraps:doh:

 

I thought you were just referring to Margarito's "body defense". That's what I was comparing...Of course illegal wraps would change the game. I'm not disputing that.

 

if it's true he should be banned from the sport.

 

that's like saying you are susceptible to bullet shots to the groin area since u don't take them too well. People usually get KOed cold with those temple shots or dancing weird after a delayed reaction. Nobody likes them...

 

Espinoza touched on the hand wraps controversy with Margarito. Last Saturday, 30-minutes before Margarito would head to the ring to fight Mosley, a “plaster-likeâ€￾ material was found in Margarito’s wraps by an inspector for the California State Athletic Commission. Mosley’s trainer, Nazim Richardson, saw something strange with Margarito’s wraps and asked to feel them.

“When he put the wrapping on, I asked if I could feel it and when I felt it, I was like, ‘Oh my goodness, this is too hard,’ â€￾ Richardson said to Yahoo Sports.

“When the commission flipped the [tape] over, a little block of gauze-like plaster fell out. I said, ‘Unwrap the other hand,’ and they were saying, ‘Oh, oh, the other hand is good.’ I asked the commissioner, ‘What if I unwrap the other hand at the end of the fight and it falls out of there, too?’

Dean Lohuis, the co-interim executive director of the California State Athletic Commission, told Yahoo Sports that both pieces of the plaster-like material were slipped in underneath the legal tape that was already placed on Margarito’s hands by his trainer Javier Capetillo. Mosley’s attorney Judd Burstein had to arrive in the dressing room before a member of the commission put the pieces in a box and handed them to Lohuis.

“[Richardson] made them unwrap it. And when they unwrapped the other hand, another one fell out. It was wet with a little plaster on it.â€￾

Margarito had to rewrap his hands three times before they were deemed legal.

Espinoza says that nobody on Margarito’s team did anything illegal and everything will be cleared up when the California commission is done with their investigation.

"We did not do anything illegal. What happened was that Capetillo prepared the gauzes that are used, two weeks before [the fight] and had them in a lump with cloth that apparently was humid and therefore hardened,â€￾ Espinoza said. “There was no substance like that there [the plaster]. The commission asked us to bandage his hands again and we did.â€￾

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=18088

 

Fixed

MTF :fightme:

 

This hand wrap thing does shed new light on the Cotto fight, though.

Not that I want to take anything away from Shane, but if Marge felt it necessary to load his gloves against Shane there is no valid reason to presume that he wouldn't load them against Cotto- a perceived bigger threat after having beaten Shane prior? :dunno:

I'd always rationaled Cotto's loss to Marge as a stamina loss as much as due to anything brilliant Marge did (bar walk through tons of shots). Cotto has always had fairly questionable stamina and his movement visably slowed after halfway (at which point I had him miles in front having made Antonio look foolish for large parts)...

...but if Marge had loaded gloves, then suddenly that sudden debilitation in Cotto's movement, not to mention the state of his face, can be explained in no small part to that rather than stamina issues it seems to me?

To reiterate, though; if Marge had loaded gloves on Saturday, he should have his head pulled the fuck off. Boxing is brutal and violent, but there should always be respect. Cheating is NEVER an option...

MTF :dunno:

 

"We did not do anything illegal. What happened was that Capetillo prepared the gauzes that are used, two weeks before [the fight] and had them in a lump with cloth that apparently was humid and therefore hardened,â€￾ Espinoza said. “There was no substance like that there [the plaster]. The commission asked us to bandage his hands again and we did.â€￾

This right here is bullshit and if it's their excuse then ban the fuckers. Basically they're saying they've found a way to create the exact same effect.

Who "prepares" handwraps two weeks in advance?

California rules for hand taping and if they don't the commission should supply tape and gauze.
=============================================
Bandages shall not exceed the following restrictions:

One winding of surgeon's adhesive tape, not over one and one-half inches wide, placed directly on the hand to protect that part of the hand near the wrist. Said tape may cross the back of the hand twice but shall not extend within one inch of the knuckles when hand is clenched to make a fist.
Contestants shall use soft surgical bandage not over two inches wide, held in place by not more than two yards of surgeon's adhesive tape for each hand. One 10-yard roll of bandage shall complete the wrappings for each hand.
Bandages shall be adjusted in the dressing room in the presence of a commission representative and both contestants. Either contestant may waive his privilege of witnessing the bandaging of his opponent's hands.

 

Since the Commission is ALREADY N Charge of Supplying the GLOVES, they Need to Take it a Step Fuuuuuuuuuuuurther & Supply the Tape & Guaze for Wrapping...

& Both Fighters Should B Taped N the SAME Room, SIMULTANEOUSLY...

REED:hammert:

 

I agree with you complete, REED. That is a common sense scenario though and considering that even the use of tape on the outside of gloves isn't uniform, I doubt anything comes of it. Like I said, it makes sense...boxing never makes sense.

On the subject of clinching and holding? Any amount is excessive, IMO. Thats a serious issue I have with it. People's relaxed attitude towards it these days.

 

They should also supply neutral handwrappers who have no allegance to either camp.

I find it funny that Nazim had to request to feel Margarito's wraps. That should be a requirement. After a fighter's hands are wrapped someone from the opposition should be required to feel those wraps to prevent illegal tampering.