In reference to Tszyu quitting, sure, but it must be remembered that the best and cleanest shot of the night was Hattons rip to Tszyu's nuts and you just dont shake that off real well.
The TIMING of Tszyu's Tap Out is what TROUBLES REED...Hatton Hit him N the Nads N the 8th Round, if REED's Not Mistaken...So WHY QUIT w/Only 3 Minutes Remaining????... Moreso, the Fight was Still WINNABLE @ that Point...It's NOT Like Hatton was DOMINATING Tszyu or Anything...1 of the More POORLY Timed Tap Outs REED's Ever Seen.... REED:mj:
that's my problem with him as well. If your supposed to be an all time great champion you don't just give your tittle away like that. right after the fight he seemed fight. He didnt' seem tired or hurt. Even if he thought there was no way he would win the fight, quitting should have been his last option.
Tszyu was totally done by that point, he probably wanted to quit the round prior too. It was winnable but you could see that Tszyu was worn out, gone and the body shots were taking their toll. Prime Zoo would have taken his beating like a man, old Zoo tapped into retirement and energy drink sales in Russia.
Yeah man that was a shock, no one expected it because he used to be a self proclaimed "i'll die in the ring" guy. He should have gone out and taken some medicine, taken a knee, then tapped. The fact he didn't just showed he was beaten both mentally and physically by Hatton.
dsimon writes: He was a hell of a technician. there is a rumor he was quite a good martial artist in his day as well. I don't know man.... Undefeated? I think if I could do it I would deliberately lose a fight... get it over with and then never have to duck, or worry about staying undefeated. Undefeated is overated. Calzighe Mayweather Marciano? they are not a different class of fighter. I don't think Hatton cheated. Hatton is good and he caught Zoo by suprise. What people tend to forget is that up until the time Hatton fought Zoo he had not fought anyone of any real standing but he also had never had any real problems at that level of comp. Hatton got into the gap a little faster than Zoo was prepared to deal with is all and he lost a fight. No comment on Phillips.
Gonzalez too. Whatever you think of Gonzalez, a lot of people picked him to win. But he got shelacked by Tszyu.
i seem to recall PBF's uncle saying that PBF would have to fight a perfect fight in order to beat Tszyu. Thing about Tszyu that was underrated, among other things, was his hand-speed. If he lands that straight right on PBF's chin, before PBF even sees it, who knows what happens. And Tszyu knew how to blind his opponent with his left so that without even landing his jab his right hand could come as a big surprise.
At 140? Nobody really. The big question is, why there was never a jump to 147? Is it because during his prime when the jump should have been feasible you had champions like ODLH, Tito, & Quartey running around, the latter of whom easily dispatched Tszyu conqueror Phillips? Factor in tough acts like Mosley and Jose Luis Lopez and I say yes, Tszyu knew his limitations and was content to rule at 140 rather than merely contend at 147. Personally I'm not even sure he deserves to be a first ballot hall of famer. Maybe 2nd.
Tszyu was an average world champion, nothing more. And before some of you groupies get your greasy little knickers in a twist, I said average world champion, not average fighter. For a champion, he was pretty average, in terms of both resume and ability. He never beat an elite fighter, and both his losses were very decisive. In fact he only ever fought 1 elite fighter, and got beat down and quit. One of the more overrated fighters of recent times, alongside Tito.
disagREED, Brother MEX... REED would Rate Guys like Cory Spinks or Vernon Forrest as "Average World Champions"...Tszyu was a HIGHER Caliber Champion than that...For the BULK of his Reign, Tszyu was a LEGITIMATE Top 10 Lb for Lb Guy... REED:hammert:
Forrest? Maybe now, but Forrest in his prime was clearly an elite fighter. An "average" world champion is Juan Urango, or Carl Froch.
U Think So, X???... Sure, Forrest Beat Sugar Shane, but what'd he Do BESIDES that???:dunno:...That was More of a STYLES Thing than an Indicator of Vernon Being ELITE, N REED's Opinion... As it Pertains to Tszyu, REED thinks he was CLEARLY a Better Champion than Forrest was...Vernon's Never DOMINATED a Division for ANY Stretch of Time...Soon as he Beat Shane Twice, he LOST to Mayorga Twice... REED:hammert:
If you go by their world title reigns then Vernon Forrest is "average". Urango, Malignaggi types are terrible world champions. Froch remains to be seen. You can only judge them after they lose their title.
agREED... Cory Spinks is @ the BOTTOM of the "World Champions" Food Chain, N REED's Opinion...& Guys like Urango & Malignaggi R BELOW the Food Chain... REED:kidcool:
Tszyu was a higher class of fighter P4P than Forrest, but Vern IMO was more than an "average" champion. And I dislike Forrest. But despite the Mayorga losses, I think Forrest in his brief prime had the skills to compete with the DLH's, and Tito's of the world, even though I wouldnt pick him over them.
I think we need a seperate thread to discuss other champs. Vince Phillips, DLH at 154, Jermain Taylor. It would be interesting. Rate the title reigns...
The first time I remember Floyd Mayweather mentioning "classes" for fighters (eg. A-class, B-class) was at a press conference for the Gatti fight. He rated Arturo Gatti C-class. Rated Jesse James Leija C minus. Same for Mickey Ward. Rated Cotto B. Asked about Tszyu, his eyes lit up. "A-class fighter all the way! You wanna talk about a real fighter, Kostya Tszyu is a guy I RESPECT!" Just sayin...
I thought Jesse James was giving him a bit of a boxing lesson for several rounds - too bad for Jesse James it wasn't a 4 round fight. I don't think an elite guy would've struggled the way that he did against Leija.
dsimon writes: Frankly I think Mex's comments are warranted. We know that Zoo had the goods but in the ring the most impressive thing he did was put the Spaz in a place he would subsequently occupy with regularity. Yeah the guy was great to watch... textbook skill sets. Double Zoo's hand speed was not all that. Jab Zudah :: was a lot quicker and a better dancer
I think you need to prove that "i'll die in the ring" stuff in regard to tszyu. I don't think he ever said that or anything like it. The closet he got to bravado was when he mocked judah about 'winner takes all'. Going out and taking a knee and tapping is no different than quitting in the corner. At all. Going out and trying to run away for a round is the alternative to quitting in the corner. Maybe he should have tried that. I thought tszyu won the 11th and I think it is fairly thought of as a quit-job, but there was talk that hatton had broken his ribs. And I usually give the fighter the benefit of the doubt when it comes to quitting. It's a dangerous sport when you are at your best and it only gets worse as you get hit in a fight.
