Klitschko-Haye in doubt.....are the brothers making silly demands?

Vlad and Vitaly have clean out the division...let keep it straight...Vlad got knock the fuck out by Sanders and Brewster....he never rematch Sanders allowing his brother to avenge that one for him....and he didn't rematch Brewster until he had a fucked up eye....

the Klits are really smart twats....for example Wladimir not rematch Peter...and allowing his brother w/ the better chin better stamina to take on Peter....


Vitaly > Wladimir

 

Chris is not a good fighter, man. For all the shit you have talked about guys like Valero and Pacquiao, to defend a fat schmoe like Arreola is probably your biggest crime.

 

agREED...

& Aside from Wlad vs. Vitali (Which Obviously WON'T Happen) or Either Klit vs. Valuev, there Really ISN'T a Single INTERESTING Heavyweight Fight Out There...

EXCEPT for Wlad vs. David Haye...

Has Haye "Earned" His Shot???...No, but he's a LIVE Underdog Against Wlad & an INTERESTING, MARKETABLE Opponent...w/the Right Push, Wlad vs. Haye could B a MEANINGFUL Heavyweight Fight & When's the LAST Time Boxing had 1 of those???...



REED:dunno:

 

dsimon writes:

It always comes full circle the bottom line is that haye is perhaps the biggest percieved threat to the Klits... perception matters , perception pays the bills!

Lets see it go down! lets make it happen yeah!!!! :cheer:

The Haymaker against the klit yeah!!! baby!!!! :cheer:

 

What's wrong with Chagaev?..Valuev vs either Klitschko is a mismatch,.. Valuev is only a difficult opponent if you come straight to him, a little movement and he turns into an utter scrub the 'top 90' could beat.

I dont know how you define 'meaningful' ,.. it's only meaningful if Haye wins,.. if he doesnt,.. we go back to crying about the division being the 'worst ever'.

 

Don't be too sure. Ike Ibeabuchi will be up for his next parole hearing on 02/26/2009. He should ace it this time.

::

 

I'm not quite sure who'd win in a three way pose down between Arreola, Smegman and Private Pile from full metal jacket. the only certainty would be a bronze for stinger. comparitively, hegman makes arreolas physique look like that of rick rude.

 

The "Right Push"?

Has Haye even shown an real inclination for that?

He wanted a Klistchko fight without having any real fights at heavyweight....and he still hasn't had one.

Someone, somewhere had Monte Barrett rated as a "top ten contender"...and that fight drew so much interested he couldn't even get that on TV here.

Haye and Arreola seem content to sit on their HBO pushes and wait for a money fight to fall in their laps.

It's like Tua waiting on Lewis after the Rahman "KO".

 

"Push" as in MEDIA Push...

Haye's an INTELLIGENT, Well-Spoken SHIT TALKER...It's EASY to Market Guys like that...Maybe have Wlad & Haye on a Double Header & Give them a "Countdown" Show...OR, Do a Live, On-Air Interview w/the Both of them, THEN Do a "Countdown" Show...

Also, the Idea of a Reigning Champion MOVING UP a Weight Class & Getting an IMMEDIATE Title Shot, is Actually COMMON....Manny Pac just Did it after Arguably LOSING to JM Marquez, yet Nobody Really Complained about the Diaz Fight...Spinks-Holmes, Roy-Ruiz, Sugar Shane-DeLa I, Calzaghe-Hopkins...

It's COMMON...


REED:hammert:

 

It's not always common for cruiserweights moving up to heavyweight.

Roy-Ruiz was about Roy Jones fighting for a heavyweight title...no matter how discounted.

Jones was the selling point.

Ruiz, and his pimp suit, were just along for the ride.

But that example would carry more weight if it was Jones fighting Lewis...but that didn't happen.

Regarding the money...exactly what money is Haye bringing to a fight against a Klitschko?

As for the media push...it's easier to do that when they've actually got something relevant from inside the ring to talk about.

 

Klitschko-Haye talks suspended!

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1][/SIZE][/FONT] According to the Ukrainian language section of klitschko.com, Wladimir Klitschko has decided to stop negotiations with David Haye. He says the main problem has been a lack of professionalism on the part of Haye and his representatives. Wlad says Haye can’t decide on his demands. “If Haye continues in the same spirit, it will be two more years before he get a chance to reach a championship fight.â€￾ In the event the fight with Haye is not resurrected, Wlad plans “to face Chris Arreola or find someone else. This will be determined later.â€￾
[SIZE=-2]February 17th, 2009




[/SIZE]

 

The Crusier Division ISN'T as Old as Most Others...Holyfield Probably COULD have Went Straight to Tyson from Crusier, but he Wanted to BUILD his Body Up 1st...That was HOLYFIELD'S Choice...

Roy vs. Lennox DIDN'T Make Sense...Roy WASN'T Gonna Win & Lennox had NATHAN to Gain....But REED's POINT Still Stands; it's COMMON for Reigning Champions to Move Up & IMMEDIATELY Get a Title Shot @ a Higher Weight...Mayweather-Castillo I, Leonard-Kalule, Roy-McCallum, etc....

NOBODY in the Heavyweight Division is a 'Money' Guy...But in Terms of INTRIGUE, Haye can GENERATE Interest Better than Whoever Else is Out There (Other than Vitali or Valuev)...Which Fight would Sell Better in England??...Wlad vs. the Brash, Braided Loudmouth or Wlad vs. the MUNDANE Povetkin???...

w/Haye's LOOK, PHYSIQUE & VERBAL Skills, he can ATTRACT the Attention of Viewers...CURIOSITY Sells as Well...Coupled w/Wlad's CHIN, David Haye has the Goods to Make Fans @ Least CURIOUS about his Chances of WINNING...That's MORE than what Fans Tuned in to Wlad vs. Thompson, Wlad vs. Rahman or Wlad vs. Ibragimov Expecting...

As for your Last Sentence, David Haye was the UNIFIED Crusierweight Champion & he Won DECISIVELY N his Debut Bout for American Audiences...CLEARLY, that's Something "Relevant" from Inside the Ring to Talk about...


REED:mj:

 

Haye wants to keep the British television money and get a higher percentage of the purse than a mandatory would get.

Who in the States has seen Haye's verbal skills? Or his physique?

That segment that ran on HBO with a voice over from Billy Mays suddenly brought him "the attention of viewers"?

That (Maccarinelli) fight was on late-night, tape-delayed on Showtime...when most boxing fans were probably watching HBO's double-header.

And of course, nobody in the States knew who Maccarinelli was before that fight.

And he still hasn't beaten a relevant heavyweight.

 

Sounds like Wlad is SCARED!!!!!!!!! :bears:

 

That much I can agree with.

 

dsimon writes:

Cruisers should be lookin to move up when the heavies are looking bad. And a champion from that division should be given some extra incentive to make the move. Haye is doing what he should be doing.

I mean when Vitali exerscized an option to get back into line the option is presumably there for a reason and Haye should have a similar option: as the champion in the cruiserweight the option to fight the heavyweight champ. As said this is viable and has been done before and most importantly it keeps pressure on the division to maintain credable opposition in the face od everybody's special interests..... the promotors the fighters, etc.

 

Wlad dont want none of Haye's steaming ripped caramel coloured deliciously defined Arabian body.

 

Well it means you aren't disqualified from greatness. Having 2 arms doesn't mean much in and of itself either but if you're one of only 3 men in the division with 2 arms it starts to take on some significance. It means there's HOPE you might amount to something and that's all there is to cling to in this stinky division right now.

 

Everytime Haye-Wlad is discussed, the same cluster of people have the same cyclical argument. It seems that this thread is no exception.

Personally, I am with AdamW and Mister REED here. I just don't understand the hostility towards Haye's bid and the apparent antipathy towards a proposed fight between the unified HW champ and the unified CW champ. As others have pointed out, it's not like there are trillions of other glorious megafights at either weight right now, is it?

And especially at HW, which is the most uninspiring, detestable division in the sport right now. The last 'big' fight at HW was the Wlad-Ibrag unification fight; the first HW fight I can recall in years where there was a genuine anticipation of something good happening. Yet what happened? The fight was atrocious: the kind of utter snooze fest which hurts the sport in the eyes of the casual viewer.

Sure Haye talks bagfuls of shit, and is about half as good as he thinks he is. But all this talk of 'unproven' is utter bullshit; he has a solid ammy pedigree (World silver medalist) and unified his division before moving out. So what if he hasn't 'gotten in line'? Behind who, exactly?

There are barely a handful of other HW's more deserving, unless you think shots should be given to career 'one-weight' fighters who move through the rankings by fighting sludge. Was Gary Lockett deserving of a shot at Kelly Pavlik, for example? The guy had a great (and utterly padded) record of 30-1 when he was handed his title shot, and was No.1 ranked by some sanctioning body or other, yet he was (as expected by those who'd seen him) utterly outclassed because he is gash. One example of many...

And as pointed out by REED and others, since when has a champion moving up in weight needed to 'get in line'? Calzaghe had zero fights at 175 before getting a 'shot' at Hopkins. Pac is skipping weights like a grasshopper on speed and fighting champions without getting into the queue to fight Hatton, who, of course, himself had zero fights at 147 before fighting Collazo for the title. Adamek walked straight out of a defeat to Chad at 175, fought a couple of utter sloths before fighting Bell at CW, then another absolute sloth before a title shot. The three guys he fought in between Bell and Cunningham aren't even top 100 CW's, let alone as poorly ranked as Monte Barrett should have been.

The excuses being raised are just odd, IMHO, and seem to be applying only to Haye and no-one else. Unless people seriously think Pac shouldn't be fighting Hatton and should wait his turn like a good boy...

MTF :dunno:

 

Allot of it is because he's from the UK, IMO. Seriously. It's especially ridiculous when you consider what the alternatives are. Yet an Undisputed world champion with power and charisma should 'get in line'. Behind Chris 'I haven't seen my own dick in years' Arreola & Eddie 'wouldn't have made sparring partner for Carl Williams' Chambers, presumably. Fucking nonsense.

 

dsimon writes:

:bears:

 

Couldn't agree more mate...

MTF

 

I don't disagree with the overall theme of your post. However, comparing Haye moving up to Pac, Hatton and Calzaghe is a stretch. Those guys were in everyone's P4P list when they jumped. That alone earned them a quick title shot at a higher weight.

Haye, on the other hand, was LIKELY the best fighter in a historically garbage-filled division. He also made one single title defense at cruiser and never really owned the division.

Personally I have no issue with Haye getting a title shot after one meaningless fight at HW. To me, it's a compelling match. But he is nowhere near as deserving as Pac, Hatton or Calzaghe were.

 

Fair points. But the heavyweight division is infinitely weaker than the light heavyweight or Light welterweight divisions as well, so it evens out. The main point is that Haye is every bit the best possible opponent at this weight just as Calzaghe & Pac were.
:mj:

 

Who's made the argument he should get behind either one of them?

Seriously, that's not a straw man at all.

And it's because he's from the UK? What is that claim based on?

 

It based on the fact that every UK fighter is presumed to be a fraud until proven otherwise to an extent that US fighters generally aren't. And who else is there to get behind exactly? Povetkin? Thomson? Valuev? Uhm...Im out of names already. And none or a sight better than the two guys I mentioned. Chambers and Areola are both top 15 guys and you can be sure that if neither Klitchko fights Haye, at least one of those bums'll get a shot within a year or so.

 

Every UK fighter is presumed to be a fraud?

If you say so.

Just so I'm clear, it's your opinion that Povetkin isn't better than Haye?

You didn't mention Chagaev, but I guess it's safe to assume you don't think he is, either.

I'd assume you don't believe Odlanier Solis is, either.

BTW, you'd take Haye over Arreola, right?

 

Look, it remains to be seen if Haye is better than Povetkin as a heavyweight. But there's a chance he could be great & hope is the physician of every misery! ray: We know Povetkin isnae gonna be anything other than a moderately competent, podgy, dead eyed plodder. We know none of us will be talking about Povetkin 25 minutes after he retires. There's a chance Haye could be a guy we talk about in 25 years, even if it's only a slim chance. That's good enough for me.

 

::

 

artie: All aboard the Haymaker bandwagon!