Klitschko-Haye in doubt.....are the brothers making silly demands?

I'm onboard now. :cheer:

 

Well, REED Doesn't Agree w/Haye Making EXTREME Financial Demands...If he Really WANTS a Shot & Gets a FAIR Offer, he Should JUMP on it...

As for Getting Haye Some USA Airtime, That's why U SHOWCASE Haye on a TELEVISED Wlad Undercard OR Do an On-Air Wlad-Haye Interview During a Broadcast...From There, Do a "Countdown" Show...It's NOT that Hard...Just PUT David Haye in a POSITION to B SEEN & he'll GENERATE Interest for his Fuuuuurther Fights....

Despite your Attempts @ SHUNNING Haye, U Have to ADMIT that his LONE USA Aired Fight Left QUITE an Impression on HARDCORE Boxing Fans...



REED:hammert:

 

I've said this repeatedly.

Put him on the air...preferably in some relevant fights (as opposed to the Arreola route).

As I said at the time, HBO could've at least put him on screen after Klitschko-Rahman. It was known that he would be there beforehand, and as Lewis said during the telecast, he talked with him after moments after the fight, before the on-screen segement with Lamlpey, and they don't even interview him.

But as it stands, there's very little interest in this fight outside the UK, which given the debacle with negotiations, may not even be where the fight happens. For their part, HBO has done little to generate interest in the fight, or Haye, among it's audience...despite the efforts of Billy Mays.

 

Based on what? Being the best possible opponent will need to be proven in the ring. What can't be disputed is that he is clearly not the most deserving challenger.

You can dispute the overall worth or skill of guys like Povetkin, Arreola, Chagaev, etc. but they are all more deserving based on beating ranked HW's and not feasting on sub 200 pounders.

I hope Haye knocks the piss out of Wlad, but I still think he should beat one of the previously mentioned HW contenders before he gets a shot at Wlad.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

U Keep CLINGING to "Relevant Fights", but the FACT is, U Can BYPASS All that to Make Wlad vs. Haye INTRIGUING...SHOWCASE Haye via INTERVIEWS, a "Countdown" Show or However...

Shit, HBO could Even BUY the Rights to Haye vs. Barrett & RE-Broadcast it for American Audiences...Showtime's SUCCESSFULLY Done that w/Holt-Torres I & Abraham-Miranda I...REED Understands that HBO HASN'T Seemed Interested to this Point, but that Doesn't Mean they WOULDN'T B 1nce the Contracts were Signed...

A "Relevant" Fight WON'T Make Haye Anymore of an Attraction than he CURRENTLY Is (Except to YOU)...Haye Comes EQUIPPED w/Built-In SELLING Points....

There's Very Little Interest N ANY Heavyweight Fight OR Fighter these Days....Which is All the MORE Reason to Invest a Little N a CHARISMATIC Guy who just MIGHT B "The GOODS" @ Heavyweight...Shit, even if Haye LOSES to Wlad, he'll Probably Do So SPECTACULARLY...



REED:hammert:

 

dsimon writes:

HBO does not have an interest in Haye... so be it. The UK can generate tremendous interest in a fight and the fight does not have to be under HBO contracts... Fuck HBO frankly! They have proven to be, at times a poor judge of talent frankly.

Thing is we know what will happen if Potvkin or chagall or rembrandt or nipple boy (aereola) fights a Klitschko... The Haye fight has an angle.

And I think that when fans see that angle as you said the built in attributes of Haye will become quite apparent.

 

Maybe HBO can show Barrett getting his assed kicked by Wlad and Haye.

That's a selling point.

Just so I know, what kind of numbers do you think Klitschko-Haye gets coming from Europe, on HBO, both with and without the re-airing of a Haye fight and a preview show?

And who is going to pay for the preview show for a fight on regular HBO?

I'm the only one who wants heavyweight contenders to take part in relevant fights?

Actually, no point in asking, as you seem to be right about that.

 

Considering the 'quality' of most recent heavyweight fights, I suspect that you might be the only one indeed...

MTF

 

See, now there's common ground.

Monte Barrett, Brian Minto, Travis Walker..these are the kinds of opponents heavyweight contenders should be fighting.

 

I agree in part; there would be no harm done in Haye fighting one of the HW's you listed before fighting Wlad. I think he'd beat all of them, for what it's worth...

BUT I don't see why there is a clamour for Haye to be fighting a bunch of fat no-hopers to build a ranking and 'earn' his shot. Frankly, after two fights at HW he's had more 'warm up' than most weight jumpers nowadays do. I'm not saying that's right, but I don't see why there is one rule for Haye and another for Calzaghe/Hatton/Pac/JMM etc

MTF

 

What U're FAILING to Do is ACCEPT the Heavyweight Division for What it Is...A CESSPOOL of Collective INDIFFERENCE & MEDIOCRE "Talent"...Even Most HARDCORE Boxing Fans DON'T Give a Shit about the Heavyweight Division...

For what it's Worth, Haye Got Rid of Barrett EARLIER, though Wlad Totally BRUTALIZED a More "Relevant" Version, Obviously...So N the Midst of Being a Smart Ass, U've Actually Thought of a Pretty GOOD Idea...Congratulations!!!...

REED has NO Idea How Much Wlad-Haye will Generate from Europe &/or HBO, but Even w/Out Promoting it, the Fight WOULDN'T Do Any Worse than Wlad's Last Few Title Defenses have...& if Wlad Fought a More "Relevant" Heavyweight, it WOULDN'T Draw Anymore or Less #'s Either...

Can U @ Least Bring Yourself to ADMIT that David Haye is a SELLABLE Commodity, if Provided a Network Push???...SPARE REED what Haye "Deserves" or what You'd PERSONALLY Prefer...Can U @ Least SEE how he Could Potentially Generate INTEREST N a Heavyweight Fight???...MORE Interest than we've Seen in QUITE Some Time???...


REED:hammert:

 

In the UK, the fight would generate plenty; with Calzaghe gone, only Hatton is a more recognisable boxing commodity than Haye; fucker never keeps quiet for five minutes and is never out of the newspapers...

MTF

 

Who said he needs to fight "a bunch"?

And I know, I know, it's unfair to ask for too much, guys like James Toney and Al Cole got heavyweight title shots much quicker than Haye.

 

Yawn.

Toney got his title shot after beating a trillion year old Holy and some mook named Booker if memory serves.

Two fights then a title shot. Same as Haye...

MTF artie:

 

I've never said he isn't a sellable commodity. He has an entertaining style and he's good in front of a mic.

He's markeable and the fight is marketable.

But usually fighters, no matter what else they bring to the table, are sold primarily for what they do in the ring...and for that, a boxer need exposure.

If Haye is good enough, then one or two fights against moderate heavyweights would do more than some quick, half-assed aproach with a preview show and some interview clips.

I've actually given more than one idea of how to market it, and I can do that being a smart ass or not.

But if all HBO's going to do is put on some bullshit little clip during a B.A.D. show - which probably didn't get very good ratings - this fight will draw flies.

 

The FUNNY Thing is, Holy's a Former CRUSIER & Booker SHOULD have Been a Crusier...Instead, Booker was a FAT, IRRELEVANT Heavyweight::...

REED Would Actually Favor TODAY's Version of Monte Barrett to BEAT the Versions of Holyfield AND Booker that Toney Faced to "Earn" his Heavyweight Title Shot...



REED:hammert:

 

Based on what U & REED have Suggested, Wlad vs. Haye would B Appealing to HARDCORE Fans (U Know, the Guys that Actually WATCH those Lowly Rated B.A.D. Shows???), who Otherwise WOULDN'T give a Flying Fuck about ANY Other Heavyweight Fight...Let them SEE Haye, HEAR him, Point Out his KO Ratio, the Belts he's Won, Show a Fight of His & the Hardcore Boxing Sect WILL Come....

& Like Mr. FEEBLES has Pointed Out, Wlad vs. Haye would B LARGE Overseas w/or w/Out HBO's "Push"....

If the Fight DOESN'T Register w/the Mainstream, it's NO Loss because NO Heavyweight Fights R Registering Anyways...But @ Least U'll have the HARDCORE Contingent, who Quite Frankly R Beginning to IGNORE Boxing's "Glamour Division" just as the Mainstream Fan Does...


REED:hammert:

 

Who said he needed to clean out the division?

I've said one or two relevant fights.

A win over Holyfield was actually relevant at the time...moreso than Haye's win over Barrett...and the way Toney won generated real interest in him as a heavyweight.

But the Haye seeds have been on here since before the Barrett fight saying he shouldn't need to fight any heavyweights and to get a shot.

 

So hardcore fans have never heard of Haye? They haven't seen him on Showtime or the internet?

They're just waiting for HBO to show his smiling face so he can do a song and dance for them?

"Overseas"...Haye wants to keep the British television money, and Klitschko gets German/European money for all of his fights.

And again, Haye wants a larger portion of the purse than a mandatory - like Povetkin or Dimitrenko - who are known commodities in Europe.

So if you're going for the monetary angle, what separates Haye from other options/

At least with Arreola it could probably be marketed, if not take place, in the US (like So. Cal, where Arreola's at least becoming an attraction).

 

Barret couldn't even "BEAT" the top rope.

 

The win over Holy was 'interesting' but relevant? Holy was forty-one when Toney fought him! How is that any more relevant than what Haye has done?

And again, why does Haye need to fight HW's to get a shot when Hatton didn't have to fight any Welters to get a shot (vs Collazo), or Calzaghe any light-heavy's (vs Hopkins), or Pac any 135lb-ers (vs Diaz) or JMM at 135lb (vs Casa)?

I'm not necessarily saying that you are wrong, but why exactly did these guys get a pass but Haye doesn't? Top guys in their division moving up, just like Haye right?

I don't recall you making the same point, repeatedly, in any of those instances bud. That's why I don't really understand why you are so against this.

MTF :dunno:

 

Opinions on Toney/Holyfield were pretty evenly split beforehand, and even (most of) those picking Toney didn't think he'd do win the way he did.

Toney absolutely broke Holyfield down to the body, and by doing so, generated a ton of interest (even if he might've been on 'roids at the time).

That's how you generate interest for a fight.

Not by replaying a win over Monte Barrett.

And regarding Hatton, he didn't put on 20 pounds of muscle when he moved up...and his opponent wasn't still going to outweight him by another 30 pounds.

 

WHEN did REED Say That???:dunno:...

VERY CLEARLY, REED Said Hardcore Fans R UNinterested in the Heavyweight Division (by GROWING #'s in Fact)...Hardcore Fans have HEARD of Haye Due to Beating Mormeck, Unifying @ Crusier & Stopping Barrett...

These Days, EVERY Heavyweight Fight Could Afford to B HYPED or PACKAGED...David Haye BRINGS That to ANY Fight he's a Part of...

REED's POINT is, even if ZERO Mainstream Fans Watch Wlad vs. Haye MORE Hardcore Fans would Watch it, as Compared to How Many Currently Go Out of their Way to Watch Heavyweights....ESPECIALLY if U MARKET the Fight....Even Hardcore Fans BUY INTO Things like HYPE, SHIT TALK & "Countdown" Shows....


REED:hammert:

 

You're the one suggesting they need to let fans "SEE" and "HEAR" him.

His KO ratio, his belts, his fights, his interviews...any "hardcore" fan knows where they to find these.

 

Believe it or Not, ALOT of HARDCORE Fans DON'T Study EVERY Facet of Boxing Up & Down...Just as U have "Hardcore" Fans that DON'T Follow LOWER WEIGHT Fighters, U ALSO have "Hardcore" Fans that DON'T Waste their Time w/Heavyweights Anymore...

So While they've HEARD the Name "David Haye", they May or May NOT B Willing to INVESTIGATE him, to Interest Themselves N a Heavyweight Bout he's Involved in...For Instance, REED HEARD of "David Haye" just PRIOR to the Mormeck Fight, yet DIDN'T Take the Time to Investigate Haye @ All...The 1st Time REED SAW Haye was in the Macaroni Fight...Nonetheless, REED's a "Hardcore" Boxing Fan....

& SINCE the Macaroni Fight, REED has Gone OUT of his Way to Keep Up w/Haye...N a Nutshell, REED is EXACTLY the Type of "Hardcore" Fan that he's been Speaking Of in this Thread...SEEing & HEARing David Haye SHITTED on Merely Knowing who he was...AFTER Seeing & Hearing him for the 1st Time, REED Backtracked to Prior Fights & Actually Looked Up his Resume...


REED:hammert:

 

So, most hardcore fans don't have Showtime, or know someone who does? Or have any means of watching that fight, or at least finding out the results?

Most hardcore fans are completely oblivious to that fight?

You're one of the few who isn't?

 

So Toney, in beating a four-year-removed-from-the-Lewis-rematch version of Holy (a former cruiser, lest we forget), generated 'interest' in his HW career and then went on to fight, erm, Booker.

Haye, having unified the CW division less than 12 months ago, beating two champions and taking their belts (both by KO), then moves up in weight and fights a ranked opponent (whether he should have been or not is irrelevant) and wins, again by KO. This after his first fight at HW was a one round KO of another ranked opponent (ditto regards the merits of the ranking).

Seriously; how would Haye beating, say, Povetkin, generate anymore interest in this fight? Who bar hardcore fans even know who Povetkin is?

The weight comment is irrelevant and fails utterly to address the issue. Pac has jumped through almost 40lbs of divisions without you (or anyone else) passing negative comment about getting in line or suchlike.

MTF

 

Has a Wlad-Haye Debate REALLY DEGENERATED To This???...



REED::

 

Holyfield had also beaten Hasim Rahman not too long before that...something Monte "Top Rope" Barrett couldn't.

Are you comparing the standing that Toney had then to what Haye has now?

Seriously?

Toney was considered a p4p fighter, by a lot of people, after he beat Jirov in the Fight OTY...for which he was named the Fighter OTY.

Haye ain't at that level...no matter how good you think Mormeck and Maccarinelli are/were.

So Pacquiao jumped "almost 40lbs of divisions" in the span of one or two fights?

Was he still outweighed by 30 pounds after doing that?

 

This portion of it has simply gone down the path you've helped lead it.