Neither is Hatton (a big welter or even a TRUE welter). And as undersized as PBF may be at 147, Hatton is even moreso. And I agree that all those factors you've described contributed to the knock-out, but I think at least partially, PBF's size advantage contributed as well. And wasn't it amazing that when PBF stopped trying to out-box Hatton, and fought him inside, where Hatton was absolutely clueless what to do as it turns out, that PBF really started to put a hurt on him? It's a myth that Hatton knows how to fight, let alone fight inside. All the guy does is hit and hold. I laughed out loud when I saw him throw a leaping left jab at PBF. What a ridiculous tactic. The fact that he's gotten away with such ridiculous techniques in the past shows: a. the level of competition he's faced has been horrible b. when he's not in the UK where he can hold all he wants and throw low-blows and break every rule in the book, he has no clue how to fight. It was impressive that PBF knocked Hatton out but it was hardly an amazing feat that he beat him. Hatton, IMO, is so over-rated it's not even funny. I know. I know. He knocked out Castillo. But he did so with his usual hack technique in a fight where rules were ignored, Castillo was moving up, and in hind-sight, clearly shot as a top fighter. Besides Tszyu who he beat in entirely illegal fashion, Castillo is Hatton's best win. And that's Castillo at 140 after having had one of the most brutal fights in history and a long career in which he neary took a backward step. Let's not forget that not only did he fight PBF twice, Corrales twice, Casamayor, Julio Diaz, and Lazcano (all taxing fights), but he also struggled hard at 140 to beat Ngoudju. He was clearly done as an elite fighter by the time Hatton got to him. In the final analysis, regardless of the reasons PBF was able to KO Hatton, in doing so, he didn't beat a very good fighter. That's my opinion. And to top it all off, Lazcano nearly stopped Hatton subsequently. And if I'm not mistaken, Hatton used his leaping lead left jab in that fight too. He doesn't even learn from his mistakes. And Malignaggi? The guy's horrible. The only thing he has going for him is a big heart and a good chin. But he had nothing to keep Hatton off of him except the referee. And the referee, as per usual, didn't do his job.
Yeah he cheated. But at fight time nearly all of his best competition weighed as much if not more than he did. Reyes for example was nearly 150 pounds on fight night. I know. I know. He wasn't weakened to the extent his opponents were who legitmately made 135 (allegedly - there's no proof for example that Reyes or Lazcano, two giant lightweights, didn't engage in similar shannanigans - or Corrales for that matter who suddenly couldn't make weight subsequent to Castillo's scale tampering being detected).
Other than losing, what signs are there that RJJ is shot? He still has blazing hand-speed. He still has great stamina. He still leaps around the ring. I don't get it. Castillo on the other hand showed visible signs of lost coordination, slow hands, lacking determination, compromised footwork, and slowed reflexes. I don't see any of that when it comes to RJJ. He's not as good now as when he was "P4P #1" and winning a tight decision over Hopkins, or beating a weight drained Toney, but he's clearly not shot. If I'm a joke, you don't have a very good sense of humor.
Uuuuuh, he's 40???:dunno:...His Level of Handspeed has DIMINISHED Several Notches (He's STILL Fast, but Not NEARLY as Fast as he Was) & he's STRICTLY a Flat-Footed Fighter these Days... Roy Jones has Gotten Hit MORE N his Last 5-6 Fights than the Previous 50 Bouts COMBINED.... REED:hammert:
That has always been JOSE LUIS CASTILLO what are you talking about...? hand and reflexes were never great....footwork/coordination was average...and he show a ton of DETERMINATION vs. than canadian at 140.... Roy Jones has been shot for years...he still has above average speed..probably still faster than anyone in boxing currently..but that just show how amazingly fast he was in his prime...ANYWAY JONES can't put his punches together anymore...it's speeed...one punch at a time..he can't throw combos anymore...
Roy's reflexes and reactions are diminished, his mobility is diminished, his energy and power aren't what they used to be either. His handspeed is the ONLY thing that still resembles the old Roy. Sure his hands are slower, but not by that much, they are still very quick. It's mainly his reactions and mobility that have taken a beating.
You don't suppose it could have anything to do with his having been knocked out twice and having lost three times? Or his having finally begun fighting real competition? A fighter's losing his confidence doesn't make him shot. It makes him a mentally weak fighter who can't reemerge from defeat. There's no question he's diminished as a fighter. But he's hardly shot. What's shot is his confidence. But that's not "shotness" as it's defined in this sport, in which a fighter loses coordination, speed, the ability to train properly and/or to make weight. I'll agree with anyone who claims that mentally RJJ is shot. But physically, he is not.
Riiiight.... So Even Though he's 40 Years Old, Completely FLAT-FOOTED & Getting Hit MUCH More than he EVER did, Roy's PHYSICALLY the Same as he was @ 25 or even 30... & this is your "Objective" Assessment, Right???... REED:boohoo:
What destroyed Roy Jones career is coming back down from Heavy..he was what 190-95 as a heavy..and most of it look like MUSCLE....losing that muscle for the first Tarver took a lot out of him... All of this he started fighting REAL COMPETITION..had Jones beaten and ko'ed Tarver..people like you would still say TARVER was nothing special..look he got beat by Harding. Glen Johnson? HAHA Roy JOnes is such a coward fighting a guy Bernad Hopkins beat years ago at 160...and a guy who has a ton of losses on his record... Roy can't win.... Maybe the reason Jose Luis Castillo started losing/looking average against below average opponent was that he was FINALLY FIGHTING guys in his weight division...
Don't U Get it???...Doub's Being OBJECTIVE...When he Says that Roy Only STARTED Fighting "Real Competition", that's NOT Bias on his Part... REED:boohoo:
read my post REED. i've conceded that he's diminished physically. but he's not shot save for his confidence. he's deftly afraid of getting knock out or even losing. he lost his mojo.
you are ridiculous like ILLU said, if Jones had KOd Tarver and Johnson you would be saying that they were shitty fighters and that Jones never fought anybody It is always an angle with you, you are the very antithesis of objective you tried to use Ray Leonard coming off of essentially a nearly 6 year layoff (save ONE fight against a scrub) to fight a man many considered P4P #1 as an example of someone "cherry picking" opposition... who DOES that??? You say you can actually SEE if a fighter's gloves are loaded or not (something that is more or less IMPOSSIBLE) you talk about people hitting and holding (something that Castillo did OFTEN) but only attribute it to fighters you have a personal bias against you talk about cheaters, yet your favorite (Castillo again) purposely failed to make weight so as to have an advantage over his opponents it is ridiculous... the Joel julio thing is just another example... imagine if that was Floyd Mayweather or Hatton? You would call them both every name in the book
Good post. Nobody was calling Hagler shot or finished or a shell of himself at the time the fight actually took place. Hagler was a big favorite and very few were picking Leonard to win. Hagler may have been edging past his peak around that time, but he was still a great fighter and the #1 P4P fighter in most folks' eyes. Hagler still had some good years left at that point in his career. He didn't retire due to being finished as a fighter, he retired because he correctly assumed that Leonard would never, ever fight him again.
dsimon writes: Whatr a day!! my chocolate milk got choclitier unemployment got more unemployable..... the sun got more sun shinier and......................................Double L just gets more fabulously Double L--e errrre! :crying: Sig worthy: Roy Jones is not shot... he still hops around the ring! cept now a days its cause something is projecting him across the ring Doubl L that there would be in common usage called a punch btw. Roy Jones the man who beat Toney and Hops lost to real competition like the road warrior and milk dud... yup. Oh!!!!! I mean a "weight drained: Toney" my bad.
Proof evidence is that Castillo cheated...his opponents made weight..and probably balloon up to 150...so what they still made weight.....
I guess some of us have greater powers of observation than others (regarding the loaded gloves). As for Castillo's holding - yeah he held. And just as illegally as any other holding. But his holding was never intended to stop the action but rather to continue it. For me, that's far more tolerable. Obviously Castillo is no saint. I never claimed he was. But he doesn't spend 36 minutes hitting and holding and you know why? Because he knows how to fight, both inside and outside. What I can't stand is fighters who's only defense when the action gets close is to hold. So shoot me. Inside fighting is the funnest kind to watch. So it should come as no surprise that Paul William's holding Margarito every time he got close, or Hatton holding his opponent after every punch he throws is a little harder to swallow than the kind of holding that Castillo does. It's equally illegal. I understand that. But Castillo generally holds when he can't cut off the ring. He makes his opponent fight him. Like I said, it doesn't make for a tedious fight the way Malignaggi's holding or Hatton's holding does. Basically, there's three kinds of holding offenders. There's the Castillos who hold because they want the fight to stay inside (when and if they do). There's the P. Williams that hold because they don't have any inside defense. And then probably the worst is the Hattons who hold because they want to land a punch and then take a break. When's the last time you saw Hatton engage in an exchange? Even Mosley is guilty to a lesser degree of hitting his man over and over again from mid-distance, falling in, and holding. It makes for the worst fights. It's one of the reasons Cotto is such an appealing fighter - he knows how to defend himself inside and engages in exchanges. He has confidence in his defense. JMM is another guy who's not afraid to exchange. Instead of holding and wasting minutes after minutes of our lives that we intended to use to watch a fight, JMM actually fights. I don't know about you. But I like to watch fights. Specifically those that involve fighters using defense and engaging in exchanges. I don't like to watch a start and stop tedious ordeal that guys like Hatton engage in. So shoot me.
absolutley ridiculous like I said, Billy Collins father didnt know that the PADDING WAS MISSING from Luis Resto's gloves UNTIL he shook his hand AFTER his kid had taken a horrendous beating Billy Collins, a boxer, who was getting HIT with the punches didnt know it either nor did the referee or any observers at ringside so lemme get this straight, a few dozen BOXING LIFERS in and around the ring that night could not tell that a GUY REMOVED THE PADDING FROM HIS GLOVES (!!!!) but YOU can "SEE" on TELEVISION, FAR LESS OBVIOUS examples of loaded gloves??? YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS WITH THIS SHIT!!!!!
the before and after comparison helps demonstrate it as well. Tito before being caught versus Tito after he was caught is very telling. Plus, have you ever heard the phrase, hind-sight is 20/20? I never claimed to know Tito or Margarito's gloves were loaded prior to their being discovered. But after they were exposed, it's easy to see in retrospect, as I'm sure it is in the case of Resto for all involved.
so because Trinidad failed to knock out the best fighters he ever faced (all after Hopkins, with the exception of Oscar) that proves that his gloves were loaded in every single fight before then? It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he happened to be facing much stiffer opposition? He destroyed Ricardo mayorga, were his gloves loaded that night? the bottom line is that you KNOW nothing of the kind, it is pure speculation
dsimon writes: Its beyond speculation even. Whatever the next leap of faith is and slightly before picking up the snake and saying "protect me from Satan Jesus Christ.' thats what it is
and he face that stiff competition after coming off long retirements...you can be 2 years out of boxing..come back fight the human punching bag...then follow it up w/ fighting one of the best defensive fighters of this generation...:bangh:
Fucking PLEASE,.. Winky has about as much defence as a womans skin in your avatar mate, he simply does not twist his back, the only way to absorb ZERO damage is to throw your spine at your opponent and you know that aswell as I do, it's a proud american custom, so what are you supposed to be?..French?:nono:.
