You don't get that far if u can't box for shit, that's a bad overstatement. You need skills to get your punches on target as consistently as he does it (25 out of 25 now). He'S definitely not as fast or skilled as the lightweight Elite or Pacquiao but he's a good boxer with great power and that'S a handful to overcome for anybody today.
See below Originally Posted by StingerKarl Now wait a minute..if you sincerely feel that strongly that this man is a good fighter, how come you weren't at the fight, working his corner? I mean, why arent you training him? Why arent you helping him with Superstar Billy Graham speeches the way I help my favorite fighters? Unless you are actually working for the boxer and training him you arent allowed to have an opinion on him that differs from mine
I can't believe Valero thinks he is faster than Pacquiao :: Even Marquez is signicantly faster than Valero. Valero's punches are not fast for a lightweight, and they are outright telegraphed.
Regarding Canzoneri: He did hold his hands low, but all of the guys back then did, that was before Blackburn and Arcel really made an impact as they were still learning themselves, and creating. Arcel made it big with Leonard, and then refined the things that he saw in him, things like holding your hands higher and sliding around a fellow, Joe as well working with Joe Gans. Canzoneri was a very classy fighter though, made some beautiful moves in there, and he was a defensive master, he just didn't walk in wide open like Valero does, walk in wide open swinging wide punches. Tony could slip punches in his sleep, that is what he did, feint a guy out of position, get him to lead, and then counter. I understand the point you are making, but Valero has no style or defense, and can't slip punches like that, he just moves in and
Regarding Canzoneri: He did hold his hands low, but all of the guys back then did, that was before Blackburn and Arcel really made an impact as they were still learning themselves, and creating. Arcel made it big with Leonard, and then refined the things that he saw in him, things like holding your hands higher and sliding around a fellow, Joe as well working with Joe Gans. Canzoneri was a very classy fighter though, made some beautiful moves in there, and he was a defensive master, he just didn't walk in wide open like Valero does, walk in wide open swinging wide punches. Tony could slip punches in his sleep, that is what he did, feint a guy out of position, get him to lead, and then counter. I understand the point you are making, but Valero has no style or defense, and can't slip punches like that, he just moves in and overpowers these guys, and that won't last forever.
Of bum-punching? I believe he's been doing that for a while...but then, maybe that depends on the definition of 'bum' you're using.
Very Very true, and so was Marciano, and he retired undefeated... Just because you might not be the typical great jabbin on your bicicyle 1-2 type of fighter, doesn't mean you can't beat the best or have a great career. His overwhelming pressure and horrific power is enough to get him out of any fight...even if he is gettin terribly outboxed.
Of course, he can box, I was exaggerating. But in the scheme of things, ie compared to guys of his style of years gone by you could sensibly compare him to, he can't box for shit.
Sure Musze, it's quite astonishing isn't it that the sharp as fuck 39 year old Pitalua couldn't get out the way :: Come on. He just KO'd a 39 year old fighter, and all his other opponents bar mosquera have been crap.
Precisely. For example when I say someone is shit, I take it for granted that it means at WORLD LEVEL. You don't get 25-0 if you literally don't know what you're doing. But at world level he can't box, and he'll get schooled by the likes of Marquez. I'd also pick Nate Campbell over him if he was still at lightweight. He'd PROBABLY beat David Diaz, but him against Juan Diaz would be a pick em fight. He is the next Freitas, but with less boxing ability, less speed, and a yet to be determined heart/chin.
Valero wouldn't beat Pac and I wouldn't pick him to beat JMM either, but he appears to be a genuine puncher at the weight which makes him dangerous, especially for JMM who is liable to the odd KD or three. Pituloa may have been ancient, but he is as durable as hell and getting him out early is still an impressive feat. I'd pick Valero against any other 135lb-er as it stands right now. MTF
thats the comparison i made when i first saw him, freitas. good call. i hope he does fight khan, amir will expose this kid.
Deadly. And until I'm proved wrong I'll continue to say it. If Valero catches him clean he will take Khan out, but I think Khan is fast and intelligent enough to stay out of his way and embarass him.
Well we have very different views of what Khan is capable of, at any rate. I'd like to get those comparisons to Freitas on the record, just for the purposes of 3 years from now.
I can see we do. It's all good though, maybe one of us goes for power, maybe one of us goes for speed, maybe we are both right, maybe both wrong in our judgements. It's all good we will find out soon enough though eh
