Williams vs Pavlik

Alright.... a year ago 95% of the forum thought this would be a mismatch(myself included). Now... I'm sure most opinions have changed. Tall Paul has turned me into a believer. After Quintana beat him, I thought Williams had been exposed as a 2nd rate fighter. But he's proven since that he is INDEED an elite fighter, and a threat to beat anyone from 147-160.. that includes Pavlik. I still think Kelly would most likely beat him, but its now clear that its FAR from being a mismatch, and if Tall Paul's chin can hold up(which is possible) then Pavlik is gonna be in trouble.

IF Pavlik can beat Abraham, and if Paul keeps winning, then Pavlik-Williams could become the best fight to be made in the sport by next yr.

Thoughts?

 

Pavlik KO Williams.....it might look like a mismatch in Williams favor for the first 5-6 rounds though...

 

I would favor Pavlik, as I would have when the fight was being discussed...though given what Arum's said about the failure of those negotiations, and Williams' distinct inability to draw at this point, I wouldn't hold my breath on that fight.

I still wouldn't mind seeing Williams fight Dzinziruk at 154, if he goes back down.

 

wright wouldve done a hell of a lot better against pavlik than williams

 

Some thought the Wright fight would be uncompetitive.

I was among those because Williams is a beast, he would butcher Pavlik. It will take a special guy to beat Tall Paul.

If Pavlik's chin was a little better that would be one thing, but Paul would put a beating on anyone at 160 right now.

 

Williams does have the type of style that could frustrate a straight-forward stalker like Pavlik--quick reflexes, coming in from lots of different angles, and throwing lots of different punches with both hands for 12 rounds. That sort of puzzle is tough for a one-two banger (even a guy with plenty of pop) to figure out.

However, I'm just not sure what would happen to Paul's work rate and rhythm if Kelly manages to hurt him significantly at some point in the fight. Would he still be willing to let his hands go just as much once he realizes that he needs to respect his opponent's power? Hard one to call, I think.

 

Great fight, and they both have the "Complexion for the Connection" as far as HBO goes, and that will make for HUGE ratings for the network if indeed they throwdown.

I have no idea whom to pick, IMO Paul is the better all around fighter, while Pavlik is the more relentless.

They are both two of my favorite fighters and young men in boxing, both are a credit to the sport and they both deserve a huge payday.

Pick 'Em.

Karl

 

The X factor is that Paul probably can't hurt Pavlik, but Pav could probably hurt Paul. Williams does get hit, & Pavlik is heavy-handed.

 

Really? Pavlik has proven to be a tough guy but he's certainly been stunned; it's not like Williams needs to have him stumbling around or anything. All he needs to do is gain some respect and put him into a defensive shell a la the Hopkins fight. Hopkins wasn't close to stopping Pavlik, but he game him just enough to frustrate him.

 

Not much can be taken from the Hopkins fight in telling how Williams would go.
Sure-anyone can stun anyone-however Pavilk has a good chin, Williams is not a huge puncher & will be less so @ that weight. Pav has heavy hands & we don't know how Pauls chin will hold @ that weight against a solid puncher.
Paul can throw a million punches, but it will take a lot from him to discourage Pav, & If Pav lands solidly with a couple of combos, it will be very interesting to see how Williams reacts.

 

If Paul can handle Pavliks power I feel he can win a decision.. I've always thought that...

 

To me, the only thing left to be verified is if Williams can handle the power of a true puncher at 160.

If he can, I think he'd chop Pavlik up

Williams is VERY unique

 

This is the key- Williams is a very difficult night for anyone but Pavlik at 160 is nothing else if he isn't a brutal puncher. It could easily be the equalizer here IMHO.

MTF

 

I wouldn't necessarily disgaree with that. Williams' volume-punching style is well suited to beat a lot of fighters, perhaps especially ones whose defenses exceed their offenses.

 

I don't know that he was in a defensive shell against Hopkins, though I think he was hurt in the fight.

I'd agree Hopkins frustrated him, but I'm not sure I'd agree with you on why...or that Williams has the style to do the same, or at least in the same way. Taylor hurt Pavlik, knocked him down, but I wouldn't say he frustrated him.

Williams is very hittable...they both are. Hopkins was not.

 

I think Williams is a better defensive fighter than what I keep hearing around here... the guy rolls with punches very well, its incredibly unusual to see so tall a man use upper body movement as his primary defensive weapon

Winky wright throws straight shots and counters pretty much and is an intelligent fighter... what did he rack up? a 25% connect rate??

for a guy throwing 100 punches a round to only get hit at 25%, he's doing something right... I'd say thats an above average defense

 

Why, because Jim Lampley said it?

What were the punchstats in the Margarito fight? The styles of Pavlik and Margarito are a lot more similar than Pavlik and Wright.

Wright is a defense-first fighter with a limited punch output. Not the best style to try and beat Williams, on points or via knockout.

 

First of all, Fuck off with the condescension (the Lampley remark)

You want the stats? Margarito was 181 out of 652 for a 28%

Williams was 288 of 1256 (23%)

So Margarito did 3% better then Wright

I stand by what I said, Williams is an above average defensive fighter, ESPECIALLY when one considers how offensive-minded he is

 

Do you have the round-by-round breakdown?

Specifically rounds 6-12?

 

Paul williams defense is that he is constantly throwing shots not letting the other guy get off. He doesn't do anything special defensively and is open to get hit. You just have to punch with him, or you'll be sitting there eating punches all night cause he's never stopping. You can't wait on Williams.

 

It's THE ONE Element that'll Determine if Pavlik WINS or LOSES this Fight...Pavlik is a Volume Puncher HIMSELF, but Williams would Consistently BEAT him to the Punch w/Superior Handspeed...

Pavlik's JAB will B Successful EARLY & he'll Inevitably LAND the Big Right Hands (Crosses & Overhands), But if he Doesn't HURT or @ Least Earn Enough RESPECT to Maintain Distance, Williams will CROWD & OUTWORK him Over 12 Rounds...

No Doubt, Pavlik's 1 of THE Best Pure Punchers in Boxing, when he Fights @ 160...But Williams has Shown a VERY GOOD Chin & Pavlik will B THE HARDEST Hitter he's Ever Faced...



REED:hammert:

 

I got 7-12:

Margarito- 117 of 406 for 29%

Williams - 164 of 657 for 25%

convinced yet?

 

Williams Isn't an AWFUL Defensive Fighter, but he's Definitely BELOW Average N that Regard...It's Probably his Most GLARING Weakness as a Fighter...

Williams' CHIN has Proven to B Stout Thus Far & if Not For that, he'd have a KO Loss or 2 on his Record Already...Margarito Certainly DIDN'T Find it Difficult to Nail him & Neither Did Quintana N their 1st Fight...& Though his Overall Connect % is Low, the Wink Landed MORE than his Fair Share of FLUSH Shots....


REED:hammert:

 

Convinced of what?

Margarito landed almost 70 more punches than Wright did in their Williams fights...just as he did in rounds 7-12.

 

Convinced that this guy is not BAD defensively at all

He also THREW a whole lot more than Wright, yet the connect percentage is very similar

bottom line is two "elite" level fighters in 24 rounds against Williams failed to connect on better than 29% of their punches

That is solid defense, and you cant dismiss it

 

You try to distance yourself from Lampley and then use his favorite source of boxing information to make a point.

Quintana landed 34%...and had some rounds at 40 or above.

Wright had rounds that he did well in, but not surprisingly, at 37 years old and coming back from a long layoff - which were factors, not the only factors, but significant factors, IMO - he couldn't do it for 12 rounds. Predictably.

I don't think it proves as much about Williams' defense as you do.

Williams beat Wright clearly, and pretty easily...someting he didn't do against Margarito, because he wasn't landing the harder, or more telling punches...and that was with Margarito having a poor start.

If Pavlik lands 180 punches against Williams, like Margarito did, I think he has a good chance.

Williams gets hit cleanly, and he can be hurt. Matthysse did it. Margarito did it.

Maybe some of it has to do with Williams being at 147 for those fights, and now that he's move up he's stronger and takes a better punch....and he may also give a better punch.

But I think part of it is also the styles he's been fighting.

Andy Kolle. Verno Phillips. Winky Wright.

None fight or punch like Pavlik...and aside from Kolle, aren't built like him, either.

 

I really think that Williams is a tough fight for any 160 lb'er right now. Pavlik will need to rely on his power to win him the fight. However, I am not so sure he can win a desicion vs. Williams. Williams workrate is nutz! Although Williams will not have the same huge reach advantage that he has vs. other fighters so the scenario may be totally different if they fought.

 

Quintana was one of Williams worst fights statistically. You can't use a one-off example to prove a point.

Cdogg is right, Mitchell Kane is wrong as usual.

 

So because it was one of his worst fights, statistically, you can't use it?

The 28 percent against Margarito only proves something, if it was statistically low for him.

But if you look at this percentages in some other fighst, like Mosley (22) and Clottey (20), it wasn't.

He had a 27 connect percentage against Cotto, but that's in a fight he got a stoppage and his connect % increased in the later.

The only recent fight, other than Johnson (which is inconsequential), where had a higher percentage than he did against Williams was against Cintron, where it was over 40.

 

Why you feel the need to continue insulting me by suggesting that I formed my opinion of Williams based on what a TV blow-by-blow man that I have historically ripped to shreds over the last 7 years online said is beyond me, but suit yourself if you want to act like an asshole:dunno:

To you, it seems that a fighter is either Pernell Whitaker or he's Randall "Tex" Cobb

I dont recall saying Williams was some defensive genius, but hes certainly not some easy target and that is all I have been trying to say... The guy is a solid professional fighter in the defensive department, nothing special but certainly not porous either... why that observation is so scandalous is beyond my comprehension