This Word is Bandied About ALOT on MessageBoards...So Let's Get to the BOTTOM of it HERE...Sometimes there's LEGITIMATE REASONS why Fights Don't Happen & Other Times, Guys R just Straight Up RELUCTANT... So Who REALLY "Ducked" Who & What Instances of "Ducking" R UNwarranted???... Hopefully this Strikes Up Some LIVELY Debate.... REED:mj:
I don't really know myself. People always talk about "ducking" because so and so "called out" so and so, but that's stupid. Fights are made in the negotiating room, not in interviews. The "Leonard ducked Pryor" (one of several Legendary Nights myths) is annoying one to me. They weren't even in the same weight class and Pryor was apparently offered a fight (according to a SI article around then), but unhappy with $500,000. People often say a fighter "ducked" another fighter because they were in the same division for a short period of time, but there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. Network contracts, bitterness with promoters, bigger fights elsewhere, etc..
Well Bowe obviously ducked Lewis. But in actuality.... I think it was Rock Newman that avoided Lewis moreso than Bowe. I dont think Riddick was scared of Lewis(as evident by the aftermath of Bowe-Holy 1) but I think Newman wanted to milk that fat HBO contract for all it was worth by having Riddick fight no hopers, rather than risk him vs Lewis. It was a pretty dumb move IMO.... in 92 Bowe woulda had an excellent chance of beating Lewis. But had they fought from 95 on, Lewis woulda made short work of Big Daddy.
Floyd Cunt Fairyweather ducked everybody worth a sh*t and he's still doing it and is proud of it. Ducked Margarito for years, ducked Cotto, ducked Mosley, and is making a mockery of the sport by fighting smaller men at catchweights.
No point in a rematch, everyone knew who won that fight, despite what the scorecards might have told us. Even Chavez knew.
Hopkins IMO gets a pass in the Dawson case. The guy is 114 and Dawson is a spring chicken. If Hopkins beat Dawson dudes would say shite like " Dawson was never that good anyway"
i think a lot of ducking occurs in the form of a low ball offer. for example, if SRL offered Pryor $500K to fight him, isn't that SRL's way of dismissing a match-up with Pryor?
Yes. Happens alot. Not only low ball offers but unreasonable stipulations like weight can also be used.
I'm guessing that $500k was significantly more than Pryor made for any fight prior to the Arguello fight. And $500k was a lot more money in the early 80's than it is now. And frankly...Pryor wasn't in a position to make any demands on Leonard. At the time Leonard fought Hearns...Pryor's resume was pretty thin and he was still 1 year away from the Arguello fight. Pryor needed Leonard, not the other way around. I'm not sure Pryor's fight value was more than $500k in 1981. If Pryor wanted the Leonard fight so badly, and if the offer was actually made, then he should have accepted the $500k and made the fight happen. Leonard fought Benitez, Duran (2x), Kalule and Hearns over a 2 year period and was headed for a Hagler fight before his detached retina caused his early retirement. And he was scared of Aaron Pryor?? I seriously doubt it.
Yep. And not asking for a rematch after a "draw" was Chavez's way of admitting he lost the fight and wanted no part of Whitaker again.
But the using the word "ducking" implies that there is fear involved. And it is used far too often by folks who don't know the situation(s) involved. Like in a recent topic about Hopkins ducking various notable names...which was shown to be false.
I completely agree and that is why we shouldn't blame fighters for ducking since we don't know if that is the case.
It's usually about the too much risk for too little reward. In a way I guess that does imply some fear, or a sense of uncertainty and worry at least. Not being scared like you have no confidence that you would win, but to the point where you acknowledge there's a decent chance you'd lose or look terrible in winning. There's probably some fear in harming your future career and being broke while at it. Early in Ray Robinson's career, he was on the same card as Charley Burley, and promoters wanted to hype a bout between the two. After they won the fight on that card, Ray doubled his previous demand of $25k to $50k, and the fight never materialized. I doubt Robinson was actually scared of the guy and thought he'd lose. But I can see if he or his management worried how a loss would affect his chances at a title, or maybe being stuck like the Black Murderers Row, fighting the top black fighters over and over again and not getting a title shot. Of course, since it's boxing fans and the internet, someone turning down a fight too often equals "he's scared of that guy, blah blah".
This is another point. If I don't agree to a bet where I can win one dollar and risk losing thousand, is it plausible to say I am not confident and I am ducking a challenge? These things are complicated
Floyd Patterson spent years avoiding Sonny Liston. I've heard that Floyd probably would have given Liston a shot earlier, but Cus wouldn't hear of it. So it was probably more the fault of his management than himself, but Liston spent years manhandling all of the best fighters in the division before finally getting a long overdue title shot.
Truth B Told, Roy was in the Process of Trying to Make a Fight w/Bernard Hopkins @ the Time...He Started Negotiating w/Jirov as a PLOY to Get Bernard to Sign...When Roy was UNsuccessful Getting Bernard On Paper, he Fought Clinton Woods then John Ruiz... REED Can't See how Roy "Ducked" Jirov when he Ended Up Facing Ruiz 2 Fights Later... REED:hammert:
100% True... Patterson WANTED Liston but Cus KNEW what would Happen & AVOIDED that Fight for as Looooooooooooong as he Could...N Fact, when Tyson was Brought to Cus, D'Amato Said "I've FINALLY Got MY Sonny Liston!!" REED:kidcool:
none of the bigger names around flyweight wanted anything to do with marcellus johnson. tapia, romero, carbajal, lopez included
Yep. And fighters in this position have the option of accepting the offer and making the fight and a shot at bigger paydays. And if they don't...it's on them.
Floyd knew what was going to happen as well. Which is probably why he brought a disguise with him for after the fight.
It was always odd to me when a fighter would try to make a fight with a guy whom he'd already beaten. Roy wanting a rematch with Hopkins despite dominating Hopkins already.:laughing::dunno:
