Because Coming Off of the Tito Victory, Bernard Represented THE BIGGEST Fight Roy Could've Made @ the Time???... REED:dunno:
I agree with the general sentiment that fighters are very rarely involved in "ducking"... I mean these fighters are guys who have spent practically their whole lives in all sorts of fights, often for little or nothing.. so I just don't see the prospect of another booxer, even a top top guy, really putting fear into them.. the worst that can happen is they lose or get KO'd.. which has happened to almost everyone in boxing at some point in their amateur or pro careers. I think more often it is the economics or logistics of the fight, particularly in the way that fighters management sees the potential matchup that determines which fights get created.
Maybe so, maybe not. You said yourself you're guessing. It may or may not be the best example, but the main point is fighters have and do avoid other fighters they don't want to fight by offering them a ridiculously small piece of the pie. Another ducking technique I've witnessed, and this is especially true if you listen to PBF, is when a fighter degrades competition, claiming they're not "worthy" of a shot at him. It becomes obvious that it's just an excuse when the fighter turns around and takes on someone half as good. For example, when PBF claimed that Cotto was too green for him - next thing you know he's fighting Baldomir. LOL.
which isn't a whole lot by today's standards. it wasn't like Pryor was some unknown guy. and it probably had a lot to do with what Leonard stood to make which probably would've been 3 or 4 times what Pryor was offered. either way, it's not my point. the point is, fighter's do low-ball potential opponents in order to avoid them.
There were negotiations. Jones made a ridiculous 80-20 offer that Jirov ACCEPTED, and Jones backed off. His negotiating with hopkins and then fighting Ruiz are irrelevant. I'd also argue that Leonard ducked Hagler for a long time.
Frankly...I don't think $500k was an unreasonable offer for Pryor at that point in his career. So I don't think the lowball theory works in this case.
So Trying to Make the HIGHER PROFILE, HIGHER PAYING Fight w/Hopkins is "Irrelevant"???...& Fighting the BIGGER, More ACCOMPLISHED Ruiz (2 Fights Later) is ALSO "Irrelevant"???... Got It... REED:mj:
How 'Bout Some Others that we've Heard Throughout History...FACT or FICTION???... Duran "Ducking" Pryor @ Lightweight???... Sanchez "Ducking" Eusebio Pedroza???... Sanchez or Arguello "Ducking" Each Other (REED Can't Recall who was ACCUSED of "Ducking" Whom in this Instance)???... Marciano "Ducking" Liston???... REED:dunno:
the issue is that there were negotiations, it would've been a much more significant fight than the ones he took in the meantime (Glen Kelly, Clinton Woods) and most importantly, he passed a contract to Jirov, thinking Jirov would balk at the offer...WHICH HE DIDN'T...and then Roy flat out backed down and ducked him for easier fights. There are very few instances in history where a person was this blatantly ducked.
AGAIN, Roy Made the Offer to Jirov BECAUSE Bernard Wasn't Complying @ the Negotiating Table...AFTER the Jirov Offer was Made, Roy & Bernard Made 1 LAST Attempt to Make the Fight Happen...& to Top it Off, Roy Took a CONSIDERABLY MORE Significant Fight than Jirov Would've EVER Been, 2 Fights Later... Bernard was THE Fight Roy was Trying to Make...He Ended Up Facing Ruiz (Giving AWAY 33 Lbs in the Process) 2 Fights Later...Jirov was a PLOY, a PAWN in the Negotiations btwn Bernard & Roy... It's Hard to Accuse Roy of DUCKING Jirov when he Fought a BIGGER, MORE DANGEROUS, MORE ACCOMPLISHED Opponent 2 Fights Later... REED:hammert:
Liston had about 15 pro fights and then was inactive for two years, going to prison, when Rocky retired. So that's definitely fiction. Duran ducking Pryor at 135 is definitely fiction. Pryor had about 10 pro fights and was unknown when Duran left 135 for good. They were supposed to fight in the early 80s, but it fell through. Pryor had a lucrative offer for a Duran fight (I think @ catchweight of 150), but had all sorts of managerial problems. By the time the problems got sorted out, Duran had already signed for a fight elsewhere. Not too sure about Pedroza-Sanchez. I know that they were some talk about 126 lb. unification from the magazines and network TV, and Sanchez didn't seem too interested in it, but I don't know about any offers made to him.
Floyd ducking Mosley at lightweight & welterweight. Floyd ducking Cotto. Floyd ducking Margarito. Heck, Floyd ducking the whole natural welterweight division fighter who weren't overblown smaller boxers. Roy ducked Dariusz M. Roy avoided Hopkins after X learned his craft and was no longer green. After defeating Gomez, Sanchez did called out Arguello when Arguello was lightweight champ. Arguello's answer was "Is this kid crazy or has a deathwish?" Arguello didn't avoid him, just thought it was a big mismatch. He would had destroyed Sanchez within five rounds. The match did not even reached the negotiation table since shortly later Sanchez passed away. And here is an exclusive for you guys: I met Edwin "El Chapo" Rosario at the twilight of his career and sadly a year before he died. He was in the 28 day substance abuse treatment facility where I used to work at that time in Puerto Rico. Before knowing him personally I was a big fan of him. After knowing him during those days, I was very disappointed to realize he was a complete jerk as a person and not worthy of my admiration. Still his ring accomplishments in the past did were remarkable. Anyway the anecdote I want to bring is that he once told the newspapers that shortly after his fight with Camacho, Hector showed up one night at his house shouting & calling him. Camacho was completely drunk according to Rosario. Chapo asked him what he wanted and Camacho, like most drunk people, was trying to hug him and asking him 'lets be friends'. Chapo told him (not the newspaper version, but the version he told us at the treatment facility),"Fuck you! I'll never be your friend!" Camacho still insisted on being friends quoting 'we are both boricuas'. Chapo bluntly told him "Fuck that too! Next time I'll rape you, faggot!" Then Camacho told him, "Well, I'll never fight you again. I don't want to ever fight you." Chapo questioned why (that was THE rematch everybody wanted to watch at the time). Camacho finally admitted, "Well...I am scare...you punch too fucking hard!" Then Camacho (according to Chapo) tried to hug him again and even tried to kiss him in the cheek calling him 'my brother'. Chapo pushed him away and threatened to punch him in the face if he didn't leave. Camacho stumbled back to his car and left in a rush. Rosario told us "He almost shit on his pants when I told him I would punch him in the face!" We asked him if he would have punched him. He laughed and said, "No! No way! I didn't wanted to ruin the chances of a rematch, but maybe I should have since the fucker never accepted to negotiate a rematch."
mosley ducked floyd with the shameless excuse of having a tooth removed. and roy and dariusz ducked each other.
This is one of those boxing myths that has become completely overblown. Mosley never ducked Floyd, not when Mosley was a lw as PBF often claims and not even during the infamous loose tooth quote. Mosley had just come off of 2 back to back fights with Vargas and had already stated that he planned on taking a vacation with his family after the 2nd one. The loose tooth quote was probably his way of just avoiding the question. By the way, Mosley never ducked Judah either as Judah often claims Mosley did. Both PBF and Judah both make the same claim that Mosley ran to welter to avoid them . I'm sure the 4 million and much more prestigious welterweight champion ODLH had nothing to do with that decision.
I honestly think Roy tried to duck Ruiz too. He offered Ruiz a ridiculous 1 sided offer but when Ruiz took it....well I wouldn't exactly say Roy was stuck because the deal was so fucking good that win or lose it was worth it for Roy. Roy got like 10 mil from that fight off of the PPV and I even remember Ruiz saying something like, he thought he'd make me a lowball offer that I would duck but I took it and now he has no excuse. Turns out Ruiz got his ass kicked from pillar to post and probably didn't make too much money either, while Roy got major paid and came out looking like a beast.
The 10 million was Roy's gurantee. Ruiz didn't get a gurantee but he made the highest purse of his career off of the PPV buys.
It's mostly bad timing that they never fought. I'm sure Mosley would love to fight Mayweather. Mosley would've had a change of heart about his vacation and dental appointments if De La Hoya didn't happen to be his promoter. I also think Mayweather would've preferred Mosley, a bigger payday, name, and event, than Baldomir. But G wanted Mayweather-DLH, and a Mosley fight could've screwed that up if Mosley won, so Mosley had to wait his turn. Then after Mosley-Collazo/Mayweather-DLH, Mosley started talking about how he wanted to fight Mayweather. He had to again wait in line as another G fighter, in Hatton, got the Mayweather fight. Mayweather and Hatton's team had already negotiating for awhile and G probably saw the huge windfall in this matchup, with half of Manchester coming to Vegas. Then Mayweather comes out of his bullshit "retirement", and fights another G fighter not named Mosley (no way was PBF going to take such a risky fight after 19 months off). I kind of wonder what goes on behind the scenes at G. They probably make poor Shane take out the garbage and bring them coffee.
