Ali was (& still is) the greatest heavyweight ever

U Should See the Videos of him Dunking on an 8ft Basketball Hoop, Showing Off his "Hops"....


REED:hammert:

 

I saw one...it was pretty funny...and pretty sad...all at the same time.

I am waiting for Jaws to post his video of him kicking some 2 year old's ass at Hungry Hungry Hippos.

 

I really don't think you guys understand the rule of opposites. There is nothing more satisfying than having admitted losers/drug addicts/welfare queens form a posse on the internet. Its like bringing sodomites and presbyterians together, literally.

 

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Aw...c'mon. What's the matter. Scarecrow??

It is always a treat when you TRY to talk down to people and fail.

 

The best part is I dont have to try, things like "I'd favor Ali over Holmes" or "I'd love to stick mike mccallum's nuts in my mouth" are plenty amounts of ammo for meartie:

 

What's so ridiculous about favouring Ali over Holmes?

 

This thread is great.::

 

Alot. Holmes has tools that would severely bother Ali, who was befuddled by every jab he ever faced, other than Liston.

 

Holmes would certainly be a tough fight for Ali. His jab would certainly be a major obstacle for Ali to overcome, but the fact that you think (or at least write) that favouring Ali over Holmes is ridiculous & that Ali, was befuddled by every jab he ever faced, (Ali didn't enjoy fighting jabbers, as much as sluggers but he also had an excellent counter RH over the jab), makes me suspect that you're one of those guys that generally dislikes Ali.

 

you are correct.

I think its hard to argue that Ken Norton beat Ali 2+ times. I think its hard to argue Doug Jones was even/beat Ali with pressure behind a jab. I think its hard to argue Ali ever beat anyone as good as Holmes. I think its hard to argue Ali has the offense capable of hurting Holmes. I think its fair to say Holmes combination of size and skill parallel's Ali, and Ali never showed the ability to fight through someone who could out-jab him.

Just a bad style for Ali. Too much speed, size, and especially workrate.

 

The hardest thing to argue is that to favour Ali over Holmes is ridiculous.

 

its just not an accurate rendering of the facts akin to favoring frazier over tyson. Two guys, similar styles, one is better than the other in a variety of ways...

 

I agree with you there. Similar styles, however one has superior fluidity, footwork, handspeed, footspeed, variety, and level of opposition.

 

lets not sell Ali short, his level of opposition is certainly better than holmes'

 

Nice mixture of funny & dumb.

 

Yes, indeed. Jaws is easily swayed that way.

Plus I said "Ali" so in his childish and trollish way he had to choose the opposite and throw in an insult.

 

The funny part is that you try very hard...and when your attempts fall flat you are reduced to weak posts like this.

 

Careful there, you are making too much sense.

 

So it's "Ridiculous" to FAVOR Ali to Beat 1 of his SPARRING PARTNERS in a Mythical Matchup???....Jaws was Right about 1 Thing, It IS "Hard to Argue" that Doug Jones was Even/Beat Ali Behind a Pressuring Jab...N Fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE...


REED:hammert:

 

Dude, knock it off. This shit doesn't fly in GD.

 

I don't think you can rate the best heavyweight... or any fighter for that matter - based on who would beat who. Styles, circumstance, etc. How do you decipher who rates higher between Kennedy McKinney, Marco Antonio Barrera, & Junior Jones? You do by through the other accomplishments they have and the other fighters they have beaten

i agree with MTF - there are almost no heavyweights i would pick to consistently beat a prime Lennox. I would take Holmes tho, but few others.

Now one thing I want to clear up - Muhammad Ali is the most influential, charismatic, & significant ATHLETE (not just boxer, or heavyweight) of all time imo. But i don't think he was the best

I still rate Joe Louis as #1 all time, Ali #2. If you throw out the losses to Rocky and Charles - Louis lost once when he wasn't past his best, and that loss was brutally avenged. Any questionable fights he had were also avenged (Conn, Godoy, Walcott). 25 title defenses!

one of the reasons i do rate Ali a tad below is because i do think he lost a couple of the fights he had during his second title reign, which weakens the argument that he "dominated the golden era" altho what he did in the golden era is certainly impressive.

 

I'd pick Holyfield to beat Lewis more than 6 out of 10 times. A washed up Holyfield gave Lewis all he could handle. A prime Holy beats him imo.

 

Poor Turk,... really poor.

 

Come on Kauki. What's wrong with my reasoning? Holyfield is without a doubt an alltime great. Yes he struggled with lesser opposition but he was always there in the fights that mattered. Holyfield was a beast.

 

He beat the pigeon pair, Buster Douglas and his son Mike Tyson, and that's it,.. he proved inferior to Bowe, inferior to Lewis, lost to Moorer, lost to Ruiz, lost to Byrd, lost to virtually everyone that mattered, he is not superior to Lewis in any shape or form, infact, Holyfield can think himself lucky that Lewis tended to fight cautiously against smaller opposition.

 

Most of those losses happened when Holy was already washed up. Do you deny that Holy gave Lewis two very tough fights? If Lewis opened up on Holy, Holy would have knocked him out with a big counter right hand. Especially in his prime.

 

Lewis may have struggled in the Holyfield rematch but still won 7-8 rounds and won 9-10 rounds in the first fight. Lewis gave Holyfield more opportunities in the rematch, perhaps wanting to be more aggressive due to the bullshit decision in the first fight, and Holyfield made some adjustments and was more effective.

A younger Holyfield had better movement, workrate, speed, etc...but was also smaller, less experienced against big guys, and more hot-headed and prone to getting into exchanges when it wasn't in his best interest.

Prime Lewis beats prime Holyfield the majority of the time.

 

The only thing "tough" about the first fight for Lewis was how tough it was to knock out Holyfield and prevent crooked judges from robbing him.

Holyfield won 2, maybe 3 rounds.

 

This is very true.
Holyfield was very cagey in the LL fights (both of which he clearly lost).
A younger Holyfield who wasn't as cagey, or strong may have been more open for a big shot.

 

I like how this is stated as fact. Lewis beat Holy both times IMO.